Tanks in AA1940

Link up A&A Pacific 1940 and Europe 1940, and you've got Axis & Allies Global 1940.
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Häretiker
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Tanks in AA1940

Post by Häretiker » Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:02 pm

I have a question concerning the tanks in AA1940. In the last version (AA1942) one tanks costs 5 IPCs, but in AA1940 you have to spend 6 IPCs for one tank and right there is the problem, I have made some simulations with this http://www.dskelly.com/misc/aa/aasim.html calculator and it seems, that infantry is even in attacking better then tanks. I tried following situations:

10 inf vs 10 inf: attacker inf will win in ~5% of all battles
5 tanks vs 10 inf: attacker tank will win in ~1.6% of all battles

But with the old costs of 5 IPCs you would have 6 tanks in this case:
6 tanks vs 10 inf: attacker tank will win in ~7% of all battles.

10 inf vs 5 tanks: attacker (inf) will WIN in ~68.5 of all battles
10 inf vs 6 tanks (5 IPC per tank): defender will win in ~58% of all battles.

It seems, thats better to use infantry then tanks. What do you think?

p.s. I only compared inf and tanks, with inf+art u can reach much higher results
pp.s. sry for my bad english, but its not my nativ language

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Imperious leader
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Re: Tanks in AA1940

Post by Imperious leader » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:28 pm

you left out hit and run results in your sample.

Tanks with infantry as fodder kill faster and more efficiently as long as the attacker is losing infantry. Once they lose tanks, your results are correct. Thats why you buy combined armed forces.

But tanks should be able to boost Mech +1 attack, and mech become a real 2-2-2-4 unit.

If you have a mech vs. infantry in a real war, the mech will destroy the infantry, but in this game they are rated the same.

Its like saying Panzer Grenadiers are the same quality as regular Infantry. Its not even close.
We really need an Axis and Allies World War one game so i can play that on August 1st, 2014.

Captain Crunch
Posts: 136
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Re: Tanks in AA1940

Post by Captain Crunch » Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:02 pm

Häretiker wrote:I have a question concerning the tanks in AA1940. In the last version (AA1942) one tanks costs 5 IPCs, but in AA1940 you have to spend 6 IPCs for one tank and right there is the problem, I have made some simulations with this http://www.dskelly.com/misc/aa/aasim.html calculator and it seems, that infantry is even in attacking better then tanks. I tried following situations:

10 inf vs 10 inf: attacker inf will win in ~5% of all battles
5 tanks vs 10 inf: attacker tank will win in ~1.6% of all battles

But with the old costs of 5 IPCs you would have 6 tanks in this case:
6 tanks vs 10 inf: attacker tank will win in ~7% of all battles.

10 inf vs 5 tanks: attacker (inf) will WIN in ~68.5 of all battles
10 inf vs 6 tanks (5 IPC per tank): defender will win in ~58% of all battles.

It seems, thats better to use infantry then tanks. What do you think?

p.s. I only compared inf and tanks, with inf+art u can reach much higher results
pp.s. sry for my bad english, but its not my nativ language
It is not too often you go into battle 10 tanks vs. 10 infantry. Economically, it is not a good way to win the war. Your tanks support your inf/art in those battles. So although your results may be accurate they really are not for game play. Their is a lot of IPC's in this game and that is why I believe the prices went up for tanks.
Regards,
Captain Crunch

Take time from your busy day to play Axis & Allies and to eat a bowl of cereal.

Der Leiter
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Re: Tanks in AA1940

Post by Der Leiter » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:11 pm

Very rarely do you run tanks in without support on near-equal stacks of infantry; you only do so if you're desperate or greatly outnumber the defenders. Otherwise as they said above you use infantry to soak casualties. I usually produce 2 tanks 1 mech if I need the mobility.
Imperious leader wrote:...Its like saying Panzer Grenadiers are the same quality as regular Infantry. Its not even close.
Definately agree with this. I'm not sure how much it applies to American units, but PGs were higher quality units. With the points costs of inf (3) art (4) mech (4) tank (6) it might be hard to fit in a 2/2 speed 2 mech (is 4 points balanced with art? 5 points why not just get a tank instead?), so the +1 when attacking with tanks seems easiest.

turner
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Re: Tanks in AA1940

Post by turner » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:18 pm

Unlike past A&A games the tank in AA40 is more of a complimentary piece to be used with larger numbers of infantry and artillery (almost like planes). You never really want to send a tank in where it is has a chance to be destroyed in this game.

With the larger board mech infnatry are really a more attractive buy than tanks and you really just use your tanks where you need extra firepower to win a battle.
I often keep them a space behind the front lines so that they can support any number of territories if/when needed.

I do not find myself buying many tanks at all at least for Germany. Does any one else buy many tanks for Germany or do you just use the original tanks most of the game?

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Imperious leader
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Re: Tanks in AA1940

Post by Imperious leader » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:21 pm

Thats because most of the US army was mechanized. German infantry was mostly horse drawn support to move supplies with very few motorized vehicles available.

Of course the Waffen SS and Panzer Grenadiers were exclusively equipped with motorized transport.

Mechanized infantry is a luxury, an almost elite equipped unit. Nothing remotely close to normal infantry. The US army was more capable on average due to them having so much extra material, compared to Soviets or brits.

The Soviet Guard Infantry did have motorized transports ( e.g. mechanized)


in any event these must be 2-2-2-4 or 2-3-2-5 units
We really need an Axis and Allies World War one game so i can play that on August 1st, 2014.

turner
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Re: Tanks in AA1940

Post by turner » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:24 pm

Der Leiter wrote: Definately agree with this. I'm not sure how much it applies to American units, but PGs were higher quality units. With the points costs of inf (3) art (4) mech (4) tank (6) it might be hard to fit in a 2/2 speed 2 mech (is 4 points balanced with art? 5 points why not just get a tank instead?), so the +1 when attacking with tanks seems easiest.
I agree, I think they missed the halftrack when they made mech infantry combine with artillery they should have made them combine with tanks for the bonus of +1. However they also should have increased movement so that infantry and artillery move at 2 and tanks and mech move at 3. I think the full implications of the bigger board were not fully realized at the time of development.

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Kaufschtick
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Re: Tanks in AA1940

Post by Kaufschtick » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:40 pm

Imperious leader wrote: If you have a mech vs. infantry in a real war, the mech will destroy the infantry, but in this game they are rated the same.
Tell that to the Germans who tried to take Bastogne from the lightly armed and under equipped paratroopers of the 101st.
Imperious leader wrote: Its like saying Panzer Grenadiers are the same quality as regular Infantry. Its not even close.
The main advantage mech infantry had in WWII was their mobility, which is represented quite nicely in game terms as we have it now.

The fighting power of infantry divisions varied from unit to unit, as it did with mech units also. I'm sure there were many cases of regular infantry units that did, or were quite capable of whipping mech units once the battle was joined.

The armor in the game is just right at 6 IPCs. If you want the mech to attack at 2 when paired up with armor, then make them cost 5 IPCs.

The deal is that everyone wants a sexier game. Infantry isn't sexy, but it was the foundation of all armies in WWII.

A&A does a good job of reflecting that with the current IPC costs, capabilities and rules as we have them at present.
Last edited by Kaufschtick on Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Young, Rodger W., Private, 148th Infantry, 37th Infantry Division; born Tiffin, Ohio, 28 April 1918; died 31 July 1943, on the island of New Georgia, Solomons, South Pacific, while singlehandedly attacking and destroying an enemy machine-gun pillbox.

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