Limited dogfights

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Flashman
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Limited dogfights

Post by Flashman » Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:57 pm

Any opinions on limiting dogfights to 3 combat rounds?

After all, planes had very limited fuel reserves. If both sides still have planes after 3 rounds, nobody gains air supremacy.

Would also add some edge to the idea of individual planes leveling up to 3 or 4 with kills.

Perhaps balance relative unit cost by planes no longer participating in ground combat.

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Krieghund
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Re: Limited dogfights

Post by Krieghund » Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:32 am

How about one round, and whoever has the most planes left gets air supremacy?
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Flashman
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Re: Limited dogfights

Post by Flashman » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:31 pm

Mmmm, I thought the idea was that you needed to sweep enemy planes from the skies to get the full picture of their dispositions.

If air supremacy is harder to win, it might make the game more static, if more authentic.

On the other hand, if both sides end up with planes after the dogfight maybe they both get to spot enemy positions and promote artillery, leading to bloodier battles all round.

Still want to see bombers in 2nd edition, even though I rather like the relatively limited number of unit types in 1914. But this depends on nation morale ratings; the main point of bombing enemy capitals is to deplete morale, the other advantage being to force him to deploy fighters to defend his capital against further attacks.

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Krieghund
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Re: Limited dogfights

Post by Krieghund » Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:02 pm

Flashman wrote:On the other hand, if both sides end up with planes after the dogfight maybe they both get to spot enemy positions and promote artillery, leading to bloodier battles all round.
I was thinking more in terms of only the side with the greater number being able to spot and attack land units, and then only with the planes in excess over the enemy (the others being tied up in ongoing dogfights). This would achieve the same effect as the current rule, but there would be less attrition of fighters.
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Tavenier
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Re: Limited dogfights

Post by Tavenier » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:40 am

One round of combat and then who has the most planes left has supremacy sounds good. Also if you're the only one with planes left then they can conduct an attack on ground troops as well, like normal, and hits can't be absorbed by tanks?

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Flashman
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Re: Limited dogfights

Post by Flashman » Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:02 pm

I was thinking maybe you have to assign each fighter to either air supremacy or ground attack, but not both.

You still have to win air supremacy for the ground attack units to get through; think of them as a second wave ready to attack ground units if the way has been cleared.

That way if only one side has fighters they all automatically get to attack land units; or if you have a big advantage you might risk 2-1 on AS with the third assigned to GA. Depends on how many rounds of air combat allowed (I still think 3; or maybe one IF fighters can be promoted to hit on 3 or 4).

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Flashman
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Re: Limited dogfights

Post by Flashman » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:00 am

OR

If there is no outright air supremacy gained, each side may promote the number of artillery equivalent to the number of surviving fighters.

Only if one side eliminates the other in the air does it get to promote all artillery and conduct ground attacks.

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Re: Limited dogfights

Post by WILD BILL » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:16 am

I like the idea of limiting dog fights to 1, 2 or 3 rounds. I would favor min 2 rounds because ftrs rolling 2's don't hit too often and you need to have some kills IMO. We sometimes see 5-6 rounds of rolling for only 2-3 fts on either side. As pointed out fuel would be a limitation, and it would also preserve fighters in the long run.

I also think that the number of art that each fighter can promote should have a cap (maybe 5 art/per ftr). Once the dog fight is over you determine who has air superiority (if any). You match surviving fighters, and only the excess ftrs get to promote art (5 art per ftr).

So say the attacker stats with 4 ftrs, and the def 3 ftrs. You do the dog fight, and all ftrs participate (say 2 rounds). The attacker loses 1 ftr in the dog fight (has 3 left), and the def loses 2 (has 1 left). You match up surviving fighters and find that the attacker has 2 more surviving fighters (excess) then the defender, so those 2 attacking fighters get to promote up to 5 art each (10 total).

Even though the defender basically lost the dog fight he was able to reduce the number of art the attacker was able to promote (worth it?). Because ftrs can't retreat from the front lines after a battle, your defending ftrs would still be sitting ducks, but at least if they survive the next dog fight they have a chance to reduce the number of art that get promoted by the enemy.

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