Historical Entry House Rules

Breaking away from the Second World War and paying a visit and tribute to the First World War. Coming this March, 2013
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Re: Historical Entry House Rules

Post by Barindo » Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:46 am

I play with 13foxtrot and believe these efforts at historical accuracy destroy game balance. His global 40 house rules have completely neutered the axis.

So why do I and my son play with him?
He bought the game and I didn't, plus they are good gamers.
My son and I would both prefer to play the potential tournament rules (PTR) and wait for Larry or Kreig to post official changes and clarifications. I believe most of the rest of the group would too.

13 and his buddy have made some other changes not mentioned yet:
Switzerland is impassable.
Norway got all the beachfront property of Finland, so no seaborne landings from the arctic.
They created a new separate sea zone(31) at the Darnelles. The Ottomans port straddles both zones.
They cut off the bit of Constantinople bordering new SZ 31, so the restricted strait prevents the Entente from ever landing in Constantinople. It is worth 1 IPC, which they took off Mesopotamia.
They allow convoy attacks, but have some different amounts that can be drained depending on the sea zone. Despite several requests, these frequently changing rules are not compiled and distributed before the game session, so it seems they make some of it up as they go along. Enemy ships in 20 and 21 can only drain 1 point, but axis ships in 19 can drain 9 IPCs.
If a naval fleet of mixed ships attacks only subs, the Battleship attack at 0. If only subs attack a battleship, the battleship defends on a 2. Battling mixed ships navies the battleships fight at 4.
They are also discussing returning the colonies to original owners. So if Germans take the Belgian Congo, then Britain retakes it, they want the colony to go to France because Belgium is a minor ally instead of Britain getting it.
I think he mentioned invading Spanish Morocco would bring Spain into the war. I guess that mean Entente can't move or pass through Portugal's African colonies or Portugal activates as a CP.
Albania does not pop up any troops, so it is now like a colony.

Today's game I played OE and my son played AH.
OE lasted longer than under the PTR. Usually Russia attack Mesopotamia turn 1 and if it does not wipe them out, Britain lands troops to finish and it. Being safe from attack turn 1 allowed me to build up Trans-Jordan and Meso. But I could not activate Bulgaria and so I lose those 3 IPCs for the entire game. By turn seven I am down 18 IPCs.
Romania popped up turn 5 when Russia was in conquered. Those 6 troops were a pain in my ass as the killed the 1 turk left in Meso which was blocking the Brits there from attacking in to put me in eco collapse.
When OE did finally go under economic collapse, Bulgaria still built and since I had allowed Bulgaria to take Albania and Arabia, It was generating 5 IPCs a turn. It also took 3 IPCs from Romania when Turks and Bulgers conquered it.
The high point of my empire included Sevestapol, Egypt, Sudan, Libya. Some troops took Kameran.
I could not withstand 10-12 units built in India every turn. Turn 7 a few Americans joined French and Italian troops in TJ. Yeah, Britain talked Italy into shipping units to Egypt to save their butts.
Arabia popped up 2 troops on turn 5. They stepped into empty Smyrna and it took me 3 turns to kill them. That blocked additional troops from getting to Egypt. By that time I was fighting for my life in Meso. My turn 5 5 troops when to Smyrna, I had about 10 units on Meso including 2 artillery and rolled 1 hit in Smyrna, none in Meso. I lost 4 troops in Meso. That was my turning point.
I moved my cruisers to Trieste after the AH fleet died in SZ after killing the Brits that started there. A turn 3 sub sailed through the Suez and sank the Brit transport there.

AH defended Trieste and left 2 infantry in Tyrolia on turn 2. Italy threw his army into Tyrolia. Turn 3 AH took Venice and contested Tyrolia. It would take a couple turns to clear it out, but Italy had few troops left.
My son did was attacked in 1 big battle with every Russian troop on turn 2 except the 4 infantry left in Sevastopol to block OE. Germany reinforced and AH pulled back a couple turns later. AH ended up going into Munich to drive back French troops after freeing Tyrolia.
By turn 7 AH also had Piedmont and Italy on the ropes.
But so was Germany, Alsace and Ruhr had been taken several turns earlier.

Russia fell to Germany on turn 5, they had gotten no help from their allies. They did do an interesting naval maneuver or 2. Turn 1 the added a cruiser to the subs hitting the Canadian coastline. It helped sink the French cruisers that attacked. 2 transports helped take northern Russia but that ad a sub was the only German naval builds, which is why Britain built 95% in India.
The German navy was hiding in SZ 11. When the Brits sent a transport to SZ 6, had 2 BBs, 1 cruiser, and a sub in SZ 9 and built 2 transports in SZ 8. German sent a BB to 6 to sink the transport. A cruiser did an end around Scotland and sailed into SZ 8 to sink the shiny new transports. And a sub moved up into SZ 10.
When a BB and cruiser went to 8 to kill the raider there, it sank both, but went down also.
Germany was collecting 22 IPCs a turn from Russian territory, but was losing more troops than it could build vs France. He was down the 4 from Africa and 9 from the homeland.

Delaying American entry just means they come in with a bigger hammer when they finally do arrive. I would be tempted to do USW solely to bring them in earlier and weaker. With Battleships being weak vs subs, there may be a new possibility to do that.

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Re: Historical Entry House Rules

Post by Barindo » Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:29 am

My preference to play PTR stated, here are my suggestions for the house rules:

Expand Tyrolia to cover the entire Italian border. AH not being able to attack Italy for 2 turns means they have to defend two border states. If both sides can build up a defense maybe they will just stare across the border at each other.

Germany needs to be able to get troops in Africa. Perhaps allow 1 infantry per turn to be built in an original German tt. Or perhaps put the infantry back in Kamerun.

Either allow CP to move units into Romania or have the pop up troops appear during the place units phase instead of the build phase. Romania untouchable has 5 directions they can attack out in. As the OE, I could have placed a unit in Arabia to keep them from attacking Smyrna. That option is not available for Romania.
Troops could move into Bulgaria also.

Raise the economic collapse threshold in OE. With Mesopotamia being only 2 IPCs, it still collapsed too quickly when it all went to pot. If Italy had it's IPCs altered, it should still collapse at the value of Venice, Tuscany, and Piedmont.

Add 3 infantry to Mesopotamia to counter the 3 extra in Sevastopol. That would allow OE to consider attacking Russia turn 1. Since Russia can't attack turn 1, maybe these troops aren't so necessary now. Maybe place them to Karelia instead.

Britain got an extra cruiser in SZ 9. That changed the tactic of sending the German fleet in on round 1. Add a sub or cruiser to the Germans in SZ 10. Or allow subs to cruise deep enough to pass through mines without stopping. They would still get a mine attack.

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Re: Historical Entry House Rules

Post by Flashman » Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:41 pm

Do you have a pic of the map changes?

Some of my latest:

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/ind ... msg1176407

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Re: Historical Entry House Rules

Post by Caractacus » Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:52 pm

Flashman wrote: Take away Finland's fictional (in 1914) Arctic coastline. This creates a small Norway-Karelia border which could be an imbalance; a "4 corners" solution is an acceptable compromise
I nicked that text from where you posted on the other site (I am not a member). Can I ask you why you feel that Finland had no Arctic coastline in 1914?

Whilst a Duchy, it still retained its territory - and it had an Arctic coastline (though short).

The shape of Finland is described as a woman (in the same way that some say that Great Britain looks like a witch riding a pig), and she used to have two arms - one is still there (reaching up into Norway) but the other was lopped off and surrendered to Russia - it included Petsamo (the Russian name is Pechenga), and the associated coastline.

Have to hop off now as the wife wants me to come to dinner - but I like the rules suggestions you are making!

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Re: Historical Entry House Rules

Post by 13Foxtrot » Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:51 pm

Check this out.


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Re: Historical Entry House Rules

Post by Flashman » Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:18 pm

And this:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Atlas ... story_maps

You could argue that it was all part of Russia, but administratively Finland had no Arctic coastline in 1914.

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Re: Historical Entry House Rules

Post by 13Foxtrot » Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:25 pm

flashman is correct. Here is another map of 1914.

http://www.ianblanchard.com/Russian%20M ... 01914.html


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Re: Historical Entry House Rules

Post by WILD BILL » Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:04 pm

13Foxtrot, I think that you're on the right path and I like most of your changes.

Turks starting neutral and coming in on their 1st turn seems right (I like that the allies can't attack them round 1). It allows the Turks to be the aggressors in Russia & Middle East. This will call for the the allies to respond, instead of the Turks starting their 1st turn missing half of their land.

The same applies to Italy fence sitting, and then joining the allies. Having the CP not able to attack their thought to be ally, and allowing the Italians also to be the aggressor seem to fit history and the game as well. Just not sure if Italy should get a two round pass, or just have them come in on their first turn (like Ottomans) for game play. I also think you may have stretched the other minor powers from coming in to far. I think that for game play most should be in the war by the end of second turn (maybe turn 3 for Portugal/Romania) and keep the US on pace for turn 4, turn 5 at the latest. Sorry, but I kinda like to get to it, not wait for long periods of time before every one is in.

I like Bulgaria and Romania getting to be minor powers with their own income/units sounds like it could be cool. Would probably only allow them to conquer adjacent territories to keep them somewhat in check (others taken would go to their parent power I guess, unless that power was taken out on the game?). I think Romania should come in (turn 3) before the Russians are potentially force out.

As for Albania, that's a tricky one. It was divided up at different times between A/H, the Serbs, the Greeks and the Italians. Why not leave it as a 2 IPC territory, but neutral like Greece. If one side attacks it, the other side places units. If no one attacks it by the start of Italy's third turn it is awarded to them (they get to place the 4 units). You could probably do the same thing for Greece, if no one attacks it by the 4th UK turn it is awarded to UK (they get to place 4 units)

The other neutrals should probably stay as is with the exception of Switzerland. Keep it at 1 IPC for value, but have the Swiss units multiplied by 5 if attacked (5 inf/5 art), and have them in bunkers that take 2 hits to kill them LOL.

Anyway I think that I would have countries come in quicker, maybe each turn is 8-9 months?

Turn 1 based loosely on what happened in 1914, and a couple months of 1915
Belgium (allied to France) invaded as Germans head to Paris (if they go that way), Turks DOW on Russia, and also attack Sinai Peninsula etc...

Turn 2 starts say March/April of 1915 until the end of the year
UK attacks Turk navy, and starts Gallipoli invasion
Bulgaria enter war on Turks turn (allied), and Italy enters war

Turn 3 based loosely on what happened through Aug 1916
Portugal (allied w/England), and Romania enters war (allied w/Russia) on those powers turns

Turn 4 starts say Sept in 1916 to June 1917....
USA enters war
Greece enters war (allied to UK?)

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