Historical Entry House Rules

Breaking away from the Second World War and paying a visit and tribute to the First World War. Coming this March, 2013
13Foxtrot
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Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:03 pm

Historical Entry House Rules

Post by 13Foxtrot » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:46 pm

After going into the history I've come up with a very workable time table for entry with six month turns in mind.
Turn 1 Fall/Winter - All turns are normal with the exception that Italy is unattackable on turn one as they are a Central Power. Turkey enters the war on their turn and are unattackable by the Entente before Turkey's move.
Turn 2 Spring/Summer - Italy enters the war during their turn. They cannot be attacked by the Central Powers untli turn 3. Italy enters the war for better promises of Austrian/Hungarian territories. Greedy Pigs.

Turn 3 Fall/Winter - Bulgaria enters the war as a Turkish Ally. The reality is that Bulgaria was strong enough to be a player country having around 850,000 in their military and whooping up on the Serbs, Brits, and French. But to make the game work we bring them in as a Turk minor ally when they historically entered the war. Again, they entered the war being promised lands they lost to the Serbs in 1913. Their entry put an explanation point on the Serbian defeat.

[b]Turn 4 - Spring/Summer - March 1916 - Portugal enters the war as a British Ally. [/b]Portugal and Britain have the oldest active alliance in the history of the world(1386, Treaty of Windsor). Additionally, prior to Portugal's entry in the War, the British transported Portugese troops to their African colonies to protect them from German aggression. And they were tied to Britain economically as Britain was the most important trading partner of Portugal's. Why larry made these guys a French controlled ally is beyond me...


[b]Turn 5 Fall/Winter - Romania Enters the War as a Russian Minor Neutral[/b]. Just like Italy and Bulgaria, they are promised land (transylvania in this case) and enter on 27 Aug. 1916. Note, Romania was a Central Power and cannot be attacked by the Central Powers until entry. They were just neutral and didn't see the need to involve themselves as there was nothing to gain for them. Greedy bums!

Turn 6 Spring/Summer - US Enters the war.

Now a couple of things we do differently.
1. We allow the Central Powers to conduct 1 turn of USW as this is what initially angered the USA and caused much consternation in 1915 which caused the kaiser to pull back on this strategy until January of 1917. If the CP use USW in the Atlantic a second time in the game, this will immediately bring the USA into the war. By the way, even with this action and the Zimmerman Telegraph, Wilson did not bring the USA into the war until the Russians fell. He felt that it was a "good" war to be on the side of an alliance made up of mostly republican govts.
2. Neutrals cannot be attacked by the Entente with the exception of Persia, Afghanistan, Greece, and Denmark. The Greek Legislature kind of invited the Brits and French in to Salonika w/o the Greek King's consent (he was pro-German since he was married to the German Kaiser's sister). This resulted in fighting as the Army was mostly pro-royalist.
3. The Bosporus and the Dardenelles are a chokepoint allowing the controlling power to move to either sea zone. Take a look at a topographical map and you will realize how narrow these straits are. We allow subs to try to traverse this, but they are subjects to mines and the treachorous currents flowing both ways and turns.
4. Kiel Naval base/canal - This is added to the map to allow the Germans to traverse back and forth from the Atlantic to the Baltic Sea without violating Dutch Sovereinty. If the Allies want to get into the Baltic Sea, they need to take Denmark which is a nasty business.
5. Each Neutral the entente attacks Pushes US entry back one turn. Democracies are not aggressors! Persia, Afghanistan, and Greece are exceptions to this. Greece is an exception as the entente was welcomed in by the Greek Govt. without the approval of the Greek King who was married to the kaiser's sister as stated before. The Majority of the military was royalist. And Persia along with Afghanistan... well, they were not thought much of by the West/USA...Go figure...! To be honest neither was Czarist Russia...

This cures the unhistorical attacks by the Austrian/Hungarians on Italy in the current timeline of the game. The reality is that Italy was the aggressor throughout the war and at one point had made 11 seperate offensives on Isonzo alone! It wasn't until around 1917 that Austria/Hungry actually attacked with German aid.
Additionally, allowing Turkey to enter during their turn (they entered the war in November) solves the unhistorical situation where the Russian forces end up in Basra on turn 1. Now Turkey can man Mesopotamia and not have to worry about economic collapse by turn 6 which happens consistantly in our games.

Feel free to criticise this all you like! :-)
Last edited by 13Foxtrot on Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:15 am, edited 4 times in total.

13Foxtrot
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:03 pm

Re: Historical Entry House Rules

Post by 13Foxtrot » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:50 pm

Just a note. Romania enters during the Russian Turn upon their entry.

13Foxtrot
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:03 pm

Re: Historical Entry House Rules

Post by 13Foxtrot » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:59 pm

One further thing about Neutrals. As in the other Axis and Allies games, Neutrals Join the side of the alliance that opposes the alliance that attacked them. This includes their Colonies. Portugal is the exception in this in that they fought the Germans in Africa for many months before their declaration of war.

So, if France, Britain, or the USA want to get that freebie Spanish African single point, they better think again.

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Flashman
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Re: Historical Entry House Rules

Post by Flashman » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:45 pm

Good point about Spain & Colonies; I also give Spain a cruiser and minefield in SZ14.

I assume a neutral power cannot collect money, move or buy units until it goes to war; it is blatantly unfair if it can.

My schedule for 1 turn = 6 months is:

1. Autumn 14 Turkey
2. Spring 15 Italy
3. Autumn 15 Bulgaria
4. Spring 16 Portugal, Arabia
5. Autumn 16 Romania
6. Spring 17 USA
7. Autumn 17 Greece

The declaration is effective from the start of the turn of the controlling power.

I think the blanket ban on attacking powers before they declare war is a little too arbitrary; why can Germany invade Belgium but not Romania?

Allow Austria to attack Italy A1, but only if neutrals do not collect/buy/move.


Another option: random entry

At the start of each Italian turn, toss a coin to decide if it joins the war. This provides a disincentive for Austria to attack it; it might never go to war at all!

At the start of each round after R1, draw randomly from the following countries:

Bulgaria
Albania
Romania
Serbia
Portugal
Arabia
Belgium

i.e. the minor aligned neutrals

That country declares war, along with its colonies, at the start of the turn of its controlling power. If it is already at war (it has been attacked) then there is no effect. A major power can no longer activate an aligned neutral by moving units in, it must wait for it to declare war. So, if Germany leaves Belgium alone G1, then France moves units into Belgium F1, then Belgium and the Congo immediately join the Central Powers!
If Albania declares war R1 then Italy must follow!
Delete the mandatory A1 Serbian move.

You might add Greece, but toss a coin to decide which side it joins.

You could add Turkey, Italy and USA to this mix, but with big balance risks.



I agree that USA should not declare war until after the Russian Revolution or Russian Economic collapse.

Have you modified Switzerland? (worth 4 IPCs, or impassable?)

13Foxtrot
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:03 pm

Re: Historical Entry House Rules

Post by 13Foxtrot » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:47 pm

Regarding your first post, about it being blatantly unfair for a neutral to get money or move. This is not unfair. First of all this would only apply to Italy who is patently weak as a kitten. Also realize the implications as their mines won't affect the CP navies. Which means the A/H navy could move out and take on the brits or go to Constantinople! Besides, the USA collects income and builds...! :lol:


Regarding your question about Germany being able to attack Romania. Romania is a Central Power Ally that chose as Italy did to not involve themselves in the war early on. Attacking an ally is bad form and the A/H along with the Germans chose not to attack them, period. This is the same with Italy. Both of these were greedy pigs wanting land and they were enticed by the entente in the end.

Hey Flashy,
Could you put your Map up on here? From what you've noted on other threads, it sounds a bit more to my liking than what we have.

Coastcityo
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Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:24 am

Re: Historical Entry House Rules

Post by Coastcityo » Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:40 am

13Foxtrot wrote: This cures the unhistorical attacks by the Austrian/Hungarians on Italy. The reality is that Italy was the aggressor throughout the war and at one point had made 11 seperate offensives on Isonzo alone! It wasn't until around 1917 that Austria/Hungry actually attacked.

Feel free to criticise this all you like! :-)
Since you're basing this on historical research, I'll just add my little critism/comment on this continuing trend I see to make Italy even less powerful than they actually were, and A-H even more powerful. This Austrian offensive in 1917 came after the Russian Revolution, and was a joint Austrian and German offensive. It wasn't so much that A-H didn't feel like pushing Italy out of their borders, as that they were unable to by themselves. Their offensive pushed into Italy, and threatened to push Italy out of he war before finally grinding to a halt. The Austrians added more troops from the Russian front, and launched a solo offensive, but this stalled very quickly. And, convinced the Italians to launch an offensive in 1918, instead of waiting until 1919 as was originally decided. The Italian offensive resulted in a complete collapse of the Austrian army, now fighting without their German allies, and the Austrians asking for an Armistice five days after the offensive began.

The historical reality of Italy and Austri-Hungary, is that the Italians either equalled or exceeded the Austrian military, but an equal Italy would make the CP war effort even more difficult than it already is. And so, for game balance Larry made the decision to allow a weaker Italy/stronger Austria, in exchange for not delaying the Italian entrance into the war. I keep seeing these "make Italy even weaker by making them neutral" post everywhere, but without any other balance. But, making Italy neutral for the first turn makes so many more changes than just keeping them from attacking first.

Heck, to be truly historic, any new rules should prohibit any CP attack on Italy, while letting Italy "declare war" on any turn they want.

Tavenier
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Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:30 pm

Re: Historical Entry House Rules

Post by Tavenier » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:11 pm

I am not one to play mods in games or use any other rules then official ones but this is the first thing i read of which i think i will use it for this game. Sounds really good.

13Foxtrot
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:03 pm

Re: Historical Entry House Rules

Post by 13Foxtrot » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:44 am

Coastcityyo,

Thanks for taking the time to write your opinion. I really appreciate hearing from you! :D

In regard to the A/H forces on the Italian front. The Austrians Had totally screwed the pooch in Serbia having failed two seperate invasions all the while they were taking a butt pounding from the Russians which really restricted their manpower. One thing that is not taken into consideration is the mountainous terrain in the Alps and the Plateau/high ground the Austrians enjoyed while the Italians bashed their collective heads to no avail. Clearly, the Russian Front was a major problem to the A/H high command and luckily for the A/H forces, the Italians were just as inept as they were. This manpower shortage was a REAL problem and is the main reason for the Italians greater numbers. Also keep in mind that when the Germans showed up in that 1918 offensive and blew a 61 mile deep hole in the shattered Italian line, it was the French, British, and Americans that held the line. Yep, the Yanks sent in 3 divisions. When the combined forces crushed the central powers in italy, it was as much about a lack of supplies as anything that forced the Central Powers back.

So the question is, what do we do to make Italy stronger. Have you ever noticed that Rome is the only non 6 IPC capital? What would be wrong with raising the IPC value to 6? You could even make Sicily worth something as it is a full province and should be worth at least 2.

Historically at the begining of the war, Albaina is 2/3 occupied by A/H and it produced around 10 Batallions for A/H that fought til the end of the war on that side. I think around 1916 they produced 2 battalions for the Italians. Not very much. In our game, Albania is worth 1 point and has no military. In fact, there is no government other than that of the occupying forces. It was mostly made up of tribal forces seperated by rough terrain. Why Larry made this a place for the Italians to get extra troops is a mystery to me. So this place is kind of worthless in reality. If he wanted to help out the Italians, why not just give them the troops they would get from this territory and put them in Italy and add some points to Sicily and/or Rome?

The neutral thing for Italy is actually good in that they come into the war on their turn in the second round of play. They get to be the aggressor as they were in the real war. And the one turn of building is a nice added bonus. The thing is, A/H was trying to entice their Italian allies to help them and were backstabbed. With the rules the way they are now, they(Italy) get to be victims on turn one. So our gaming group brings Italy into the war on their turn on round 2 allowing them to have the initiative. Does that better expain this?

By the way as a further explanation. When Minor Neutrals join the war, such as Bulgaria or Romania. Their troops just appear and do not need to have troops from their side enter their territory.

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