Strategic Bombing Raids as of 10/10/11

Link up A&A Pacific 1940 and Europe 1940, and you've got Axis & Allies Global 1940.
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Larry
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Strategic Bombing Raids as of 10/10/11

Post by Larry » Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:30 pm

SBR

Air Battle.
All escorts and bombers (Strategic & Tactical) fires @ 1
Jets fires @ 2

Generated casualties are placed behind the casualty line and will return fire before being eliminated.

Interceptors. fires @ 1
Jet interceptors fires @ 2

All casualties, both sides, are removed.
Surviving escorts retreat.

Bombing Run
Bombers are assigned to targets.
Strategic bombers can be assigned to any target (IC’s, naval bases. airbase).
Tactical bombers can be assigned only to naval bases and airbases.

Each targeted facility fires @ 1, each can fire one time at each bomber that is attacking it.
All casualties at both stages of the raid are chosen by the owners of the units involved.

Bombs Away
Strategic bombers roll a 1d6+2
Tactical bombers roll a 1d6

Damage Report

The damage to the target (hits) is equal to the total number rolled on the die/dice. Place 1 gray chip (damage marker) under the target for each hit scored.

Option #1The target is considered inoperable if it receives any hits. It can be repaired by paying 1 IPC for the removal of each chip. This is done during the players next Purchase & Repair phase 1.
The maximum damage a major IC can receive is 20 damage markers. Minor ICs and bases can’t receive more than 6 damage markers each.

Added 10/12
Option #2 Also being considered:
Major industrial complexes can mobilize up to 10 units per turn minus the number of damage markers they have. For example a major IC with 6 damage markers can produce only 4 units. A major IC can only receive up to 20 damage markers, after that they are no longer assigned. A major IC with 20 damage markers would have to remove 11 of them before it could build 1 new unit.

Minor industrial complexes can only mobilize 3 units per turn minus the number of damage markers they have. For example a minor IC with 2 damage markers can produce only 1 unit. A minor IC can only receive up to 6 damage markers, after that they are no longer assigned. A minor IC with 6 damage markers would have to remove 4 of them before it could build 1 new unit.


Your comments...

The Fire Knight
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Re: Strategic Bombing Raids as of 10/10/11

Post by The Fire Knight » Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:37 pm

wait a second... so this means that one damage no longer means a major can only produce 9 units... it means it can produce none? And that air and naval bases are no longer inactive at 3, but at 1 damage? If so... then after the initial one minute review I like it.

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Re: Strategic Bombing Raids as of 10/10/11

Post by Imperious leader » Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:48 pm

The target is considered inoperable if it receives any hits. It can be repaired by paying 1 IPC for the removal of each chip. This is done during the players next Purchase & Repair phase 1.
Well i don't like this if it makes the threshold at 10 to ruin a majors placement capability, since repeating a 10 damage score each turn basically does this.

Now if the first 10 damage could not count against placement points and damage 11+ does, this could work.

For example major damaged for 14 meaning you can place only 6 units.

or

This is done during the players next Purchase & Repair phase 1.
The maximum damage a major IC can receive is 20 damage markers.


Does this mean you can fix the damage on your turn as opposed to a turn latter after the damage is done? If that is so i would write it as:

Damage is repaired during the players Purchase & Repair phase 1.
The maximum damage a major IC can receive is 20 damage markers
Last edited by Imperious leader on Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
We really need an Axis and Allies World War one game so i can play that on August 1st, 2014.

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questioneer
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Re: Strategic Bombing Raids as of 10/10/11

Post by questioneer » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:12 pm

Superb!!!! I love it!!! Nice Revision!!!

Noll
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Re: Strategic Bombing Raids as of 10/10/11

Post by Noll » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:19 pm

Larry, you amaze me. I really like how you sorted it out, especially the 'must repair' in order to use it. Love it.

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Dave
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Re: Strategic Bombing Raids as of 10/10/11

Post by Dave » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:32 pm

First, I like how the bombers, escorts, and interceptors interact. Having everyone rolling hits on a one with casualties removed after everyone has fired is great.

Combing 1d6+2 damage for strategic bombers with only 1 hit rendering an IC or facility inoperable may be too much. In the old system, you had the choice of not repairing some of the damage and still being able to place. So, having 8 damage on a major complex didn't necessarily mean you had to repair anything if all you wanted to do is place two aircraft carriers. The "real" damage of strategic bombing occurred at over 3 damage for minors and 10 damage for majors because then they were required to spend money to repair a facility and build units from it.

The advantage of 1d6+2 under the old system was it helped get the damage markers above that 3 or 10 damage marker threshold where ipcs had to be spent repairing ICs or facilities before they were operational.

Now, with any damage rendering an IC or facility inoperative, everything must be paid for, period. My concern is that marrying these two (1d6+2 and 1 damage yielding an inoperative IC or facility) makes bombing too strong. What happens when UK Europe gets into the 20s for income and Germany bombs them? Do they have enough money for complete repair and placement? Ditto for Russia. They get below 30 ipc for income and all of sudden Japan and Germany can bomb them to oblivion because because they would have to do a complete repair before placing units. How much money would they have for units after complete repair? Ditto for UK Pacific, Italy and maybe even Germany if the US concentrated on them.

In fact, the only powers I don't see being effected by this would be the US itself, Anzac, and maybe Japan (maybe).

I'm willing to give this a try, but I am apprehensive that it may be too powerful. One or the other system (one damage yields an IC or facility inoperative or 1d6+2), but not both? TBD after some live fire drills. :D

I'll give you this much Larry, you've still got surprises up your sleeve even at this late date.

Surprise ! :lol: Come on... Think of it this way... if you can't keep up your production you're SOL. That's actually what bombing was all about - No?

mantlefan
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Re: Strategic Bombing Raids as of 10/10/11

Post by mantlefan » Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:33 pm

IMO extremely overpowered, and I am not saying that just to argue.

It would be extremely ill-advised for the defender to send up interceptors in practically any circumstance.

Not only that, the damage they now do is crazy.

One bomber can cause a player to spend 11 IPCs to build one infantry.

The other thing that this does is allows bombing damage to be much more potent, and that's AFTER the +2. This makes the repairing damage only up to what you will purchase gone obviously. Requiring that to build anything, you have to repair it ALL is way, way too powerful. This might as well be a straight IPC bomb as far as Germany getting violated by the US is concerned. Germany can't go very long, maybe 1 turn, without building anything in the two Germanies. 6 or bombers and 6 or so ftrs can shut down both German factories in dramatic fashion every turn requiring 25 or so be spent if germany needs to build at both. In a game where US has this much money, that is not hard at all to maintain.

This breaks the game in favor of US over Germany.

Much, much, much too powerful.

Totally nerfing interceptors in practical situations

I am sorry but this is a terrible idea. I am saying that because I believe it's true, I'm not trying to start a fight or offend you Larry. Because you believe it's true? - What a concept...

This completely breaks strat bombing for the Amis. What the heck are an "Amis"

Strat boming just keeps getting stronger. First it was adding +2 onto the great leaps ahead in A3 bomber defense, and now they are even STRONGER than that broken addition would have been! This is really getting out of hand. It's crazy man...

If we have a maxed factory, before, Germany would need to spend 14 to build just one infantry there. Now, germany needs to spend 23.
That's a 40+% increase in cost to build one infantry when a factory is maxed, and obviously the cost to build any unit in any situation goes up in general.
Interceptors are 50% LESS effective
Bombers do 57% more average damage.

You could keep everything the same, except for changing interceptors to 3 defense, and I would still look you in the eye and tell you that the US using these rules can be very abusive.

Sorry, the jet interceptors rolling at 2 aren't enough incentive for me to blow cash hoping to get ridiculously lucky on tech, especially when I need to spend 23 IPCs if I want to build just one infantry at the factory the USA just raped. Raped? Raped ? Take a pill... We're watching it, as any and all new adjustments are watched.
“A lie never lives to be old.” — Sophocles

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Re: Strategic Bombing Raids as of 10/10/11

Post by Imperious leader » Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:25 am

Well you can always raise the price of bombers if it proves too strong.

I guess it's also easier to keep track of what you need to spend if you want to place units since you got no decision to make about "repairing on installment plan" if you got 5 damage for example, it will effect you straight away.

If you don't increase cost of bombers and keep this new repair idea, you should drop the 1D6+2 thing and just go 1D6
We really need an Axis and Allies World War one game so i can play that on August 1st, 2014.

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