I will be playing an FTF game with our group on the 25th which we hope to get to round 10 at least. Anyway, for those that want to follow here are the links for the online games:
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/ind ... ic=24680.0
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/ind ... ic=24664.0
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/ind ... ic=24665.0
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/ind ... ic=24666.0
I played two other games but we didn’t get far, however, my findings were the same. Schoolwork is taking over now, so I had to cut these games shorter- only got to the 5th round on both of these. Well here they are…
Game Report #1
Axis- Cmdr Jenn, Allies- Questioneer
Round 1- Germany buys 2SS, 1AC in z112, takes Yugo, Bulg, Finland, Normandy and France. They sink fleet in z106 and z109 leaving a couple of convoys damages there at -3 a piece. They leave z111 and z110 fleet alive though- seems like they are preparing for a hard Barbarossa and not Sealion and trying to take advantage of the new German convoy rule.
Russia consolidates as usual and begins to move the Eastern troops west. Builds 5inf, 1art, 3tnks. Japan takes some Chinese tt including Yun and puts all of its navy in z36. Builds 3TTs.
US buys 2 carriers, 1bmr, 1DD- consolidates. 1bmr, 1DD in z101 and 2ACs in z10. China retakes Yunnan and turtles.
UK successfully sinks navy in z96 and non-combats the navy to z92. They rid of the z109 convoy with no losses. DD is left in 109, BB is left in z104, and CZ in left in z94- all of these are blockers to Gibrlatar. TT is used in z96 after it is cleared to Amphib to Tobruk all Egypt and Alex forces- won by a tank. DD, 2CZ, 1BB, 1AC, 1tac, 1ftr move to z92, builds of all inf in London and 1tnk, 1mec on SAfr. India does some normal stuff- steps up to Burma, takes Celebes and consolidates. Anzac saves all cash and consolidates- flies a ftr to Sum.
Italy sinks z93 French fleet with planes and builds a ftr- takes back Tob.
France takes and empty Lib and moves a couple of infantry- of course they earn nothing at this point.
Round 2- Germany quietly builds more land units to send east and a couple more subs so intended convoy I believe.
Russia continues to build land units and stack in areas needed. 18inf step back up into Amur now that Japan’s ground and air is down south.
Japan presses further into China, navy still at z36- builds TTs.
US quietly builds ships, TT and land. China takes back Yunnan and builds infantry.
UK builds land units for South Africa- securing the area more and stays in z92, sets blockers in z93 and z94. Had a chance to attack rest of Italian fleet (looking back, probably should have) but the battle is risky and near 50/50. India sets a blocker DD at z37 and consolidates- takes more DEI tts. ANZAC builds an AC and takes a DEI tt.
Italy takes Cairo and wipes out blockers of UK with planes.
France- well??? What can France to but pretend to stay in the game- usual NCMoves of course- oh except it takes Lib with an inf- left open- might as well.
Round 3- Germany buys land units and takes EPoland with a stack of 25inf 3tnk, 5art or so. Sinks a couple of Brit ships in the Altantic- clearing it. Puts a CZ for a blocker in z91 for Gib and also takes Gib with 2inf. Blocking my Brit navy in z92 in. Maybe I should have moved it out but I was so stubborn about Italy not getting the bonus- eh, I’ll live with it a guess- otherwise Italy could run loose in the Med I guess. Germany earns $50 right now.
Russia- Buys are the same 5inf, 1art and 3tnks. Stacks at at Belo and SUkr (looking back I think I probably should have moved this stack to Brysk instead- is was late and wasn’t really paying close attention to that- might come back to bite me later). Attacks Korea!!!- with the 2AA, 18inf- no losses. I can still attack Korea and not negate the Mongolia bonus- sweet! Interested to see what Jen does here. Russian ships remain in z114 of course to prevent early amphibs.
Japan- Japan continues to take a couple more Chinese tt. Not at war yet with Western Allies. Stack of land units in Yunnan (15inf, 6art, 1tnk). Stack of planes in Anh and ALL ships are harbored at z36. Jenn builds a naval base there to give her flexibility to India and Carolines and Japan back and forth in one move rotations (I do the same build at some time- Japan seems to need this eventually). 3DD left in z6. For eventual blocker I presume.
US- Builds DD in z10 and TTs in the east getting ready for Amphib on Africa in z101- pretty quiet build for US- navy stack in Hawaii.
China- China and India UK do a 2-prong attack on Yunnan- had to do this to rid of the infantry stack there. I really get dice whipped here- the battle was a slight advantage for me- really almost 50/50- but the dice whipping killed me. Not the worst thing in the world though as I reduce the stack on Yunnan to 0inf, 1mec, 3art and 1tnk- now Japan is starting to run thin on land units in China.
UK- Builds some tnks in SAfr and sinks z91 ships. I put a CZ blocker in z96 frm the Italian navy in z98. India does the prong attack mentioned above and throw some DD blockers across the DEI. Builds all mech- I do this because they are faster at reaching Yun and Russia (to help them is needed)- whadda know- mech ARE useful in the Pacific!!!
ANZAC- positions AC north of Australia with CZ. DD is used as a DEI blocker. West Allies control all of the DEI now. Since Brit attacks and ANZAC- DOWs- India makes $34 and ANZ- $24
Italy- Takes back Libya, evacuates Sud to go to MidEast, builds land- tnk, mec units. Earns- $25 right now. Navy is in z96
France- twittles thumbs- eats a crossaint.
After round 3 observations- In Europe, in my three Alpha+3 games so far the Italian Navy breakup is turning out to be a pretty good call. Seems tough for Britain to cripple Italy because that navy is spread out. The Bomber is helpful for Italy also. I couldn't put a blocker to stop the Gibraltar invasion because of it. I had a chance to attack the Italian navy on round 2 but didn't- maybe should have- even though it would have cost me my navy and Italy’s. I didn't want to leave the Med and give them control and a bonus- stubborn.
It seems that as Britain you either got to attack the Italian fleet- or only part of it now and sacrifice your Med navy or evacuate the Med and rebuild from the outside (help India or rebuild from Canada/London). Anyway the Med is not a guaranteed thing for the Brits from what I can see, which is good considering G3 Sealion is essentially dead. Still interested to see the G4 Sealion in this version though (probably too risky- but I would still like to try it again).
I still think that 1AC, 2TTs are the correct build for Germany- still have to "show" Sealion- even though its not probable on G3 just to keep Britain honest with their buys- otherwise they build in Africa or create a big Canadian naval force or something. Since the convoys are on the far side of England- Germany can't seem to really take advantage of them without good naval supremecy- which it never seems to have even in Alpha+3.
I also, am wondering what would happen if I move the 18Russian inf west on the onset- securing Russia for later rounds but make Japan much stronger in the East- I think I'm actually trying that in my other game.
Round 4- Germany buys all land units. Stacks more land on EPol- up to 33inf+other land units. Puts all 9 tac and ftrs on Gib to protect and seal off the Allies who are preparing to invade with trannies from Canada and EUS- not many capital ships for Allies on that side yet. Russian ships killed in z114- though Germany only has one TT.
Russia stacks in Belo again and continues to build. Left blockers in NUkr and BessArb. Didn’t move the Ukr stack to Brysk yet thinking Belo can hold- this might prove costly for Russia. I only did this because all of Germany’s planes (except the bmr) were out of range (in Gibr) so I figured it can hold. In the East- Japan attacks Manchuria!!! 18inf, 2AA on Manchuria- I already own Korea. Will Jenn take the bait??? 18inf running loose in China is very annoying. Yes I gave up my Mongolian rights, but I’m planning on getting Japan out of position and giving Allies just the time needed to really storm back hard later.
Japan bites!!! They take back Manchuria and Korea and Russia looses all infantry. Russia however rids of 8-10 infantry of Japan’s as well weakening their now slim land forces in China. Most of navy is in z6 with a small force in z19. Japan moves into Sze-free.
US/China/UK/ANZAC- The Allies control the South Pacific!!! Allies together seal off the Jap navy in the north through a blockade of DDs stretching from z4 down to z22 over to z20. Allied single infantry units walk in Shanghai, Yunnan, Carolines (where the US/ANZAC navy stack is at), Siam. India and ANZAC making 35 and 25 respectively. US makes near $80 now. US builds all in the Atlantic!!! Stack on z101 consists of 2 loaded ACs 3DD, 1CZ and 6TTs ready to go. UK builds and now has 1AC- loaded, 1DD with 2TT ready to go from Canada and UK. Moved z92 navy to z94. UK takes Sudan and is moving up tanks. Indian Infantry and Mec moves towards Russia and into Russia for some. The tide is turning. Gibraltar will fall. Japan seems like its in trouble now. The only question for the Allies is will Russia hold???
Game Report #2- I was Allies again this game
This game was an FTF game played yesterday with someone from out gaming group. In this game we were able to use the new convoy system (Take 2- including the change to move this portion to after the General Combat phase). We also used the bomber in London. Because of time, this game only went 4 rounds also.
Germany tried to get greedy and take out the Brit navy and take Normandy with Paris. Bad dice on Paris battle left France alive. This ended up peeving the German for the rest of the game- even though Paris would be taken next round, their ftr would be saved and they built 3 soon to be menacing subs in the first round. Russia again held back the 18inf and then launched forth poised to attack Manchuria. Yunnan was a constant hot spot of contention. Because Russia committed the 18inf east, it started to give them a hard time in the West- Russia was beginning to be slowly pushed back soon to give up Novograd within 2 more rounds. If it wasn’t for the France goof up by Germany in the opening round- this game would have been pretty even. Even with the French mistake it was still a good game. Brits were winning in Africa, though Italy controlled the Med during round 3 but it wasn’t gonna be for long. Japan can be put under wraps if Russia advances the 18inf later in the game, however the Eastern Front suffers later also as German will have a slight advantage there.
Observations (in short)
1.Italian Med changes- very good
2.Italian Strat Bomber exachange- very good
3.British Bomber exchange for fighter- just fine- may give Italy something though- SS or DD.
4.New Convoy System- fine, though just as ineffective as SBRs- like SBRs- they really don’t effect the game much- though I like this system better than the old one.
5.Soviet-Japan Pact rules- good enough.
EDIT- forgot this:
6. New AA guns system- "Meh"- its OK- no feeling one way or the other- seems to give both sides a little more defense for their units- don't care whether its kept or not.
***The only other thing I would add to the game is the 7VC rule (Axis must capture 7 out of 12 VCs on the Europe side- however, one has to be Moscow- otherwise, game is slighted toward Allies in that theatre.
Overall I found it easier to be Allies than Axis- Axis have a tough time and their margin for error is much less.
Well, hope this helps Larry, looking forward to the FINAL ALPHA- FINALLY.
Remember in that game, Germany got dice whipped in France and almost lost it- they took heavy casualties there. It kinda set everything off. Also, Germany vouched to take out the Atlantic navy versus help Italy in the Med which they did not- that option is always there for Germany. However, with that being said- I did say that Italy is probably 1DD or 1SS short of balance there, with or without adding a UK bomber.Kobu wrote:How exactly did you come to the conclusion that the Med changes are good for Italy? I think I showed that on very average dice, Italy will get smoked. It was going to be a bloodbath if we played that out. UK was able to buy 3 subs turn two for the Med after toasting the entire Italian navy. It was only going to go downhill from there.
Possible putting Italy:
after Germany OR
right before UK I think any of these would help.
BTW Larry, please give some confirmation that you read this thread- appreciate it- these are my final thoughts on A3 before you close the door on this project- thanks for allowing me to participate- I know it will be a great finished product- can't wait to play it!!!
while it would allow Italy to cover up and add a ship, the UK would lose the innitiative and be left with what Italy gives them -which most likely would be nothing. While I would be ok with this, I don't think Larry would go for it. Goes against the grain for how he likes dicey rnd 1 conflicts.
From the 5 Alpha+3 games I have played (and mind you that the games aren't too far off from what happens in Alpha+2 games), I've come to see Allied advantages more than Axis period.
In fact, at this point, I'm so confident about this that I believe I can contain Japan everytime with the Allies and then use the extra resources from India and US to help Russia just in time.
By the time Germany (against a well-concerted effort by the Euro Axis- hard Barborossa) reaches or takes Moscow- Paris and/Cairo will be in Allied hands- dening the Euro Axis the victory and starting the downward economic spiral to defeat.
This result in the game is caused by the reduced chances of Sealion and the new Ruso-Jap pact in the game in which Russia really has no penalty for attacking Japan (Mongolia stays neutral???- who cares- that hasn't proven to be a liability when Russia attacks Japan).
If the 18inf from Amur can attack Japan and hold out on the Eastern Front, then I believe the game has a flaw. With these new rules, I will attack with Russia from Amur everytime- usually round 3- get Japan out of position, wear down their infantry and allow the Pac Allies the time they need to come back with great force. (the game between Jena and I is a great example of this).
I buy mec with India throughout so that whether Brits lose India or have flex room b/c of the Russian attack, they can quickly swoop up to Russia to help defend. Without the real threat of Sealion, Britain can rebuild the navy and send several fighters to Russia by round 4-5 to help defend also. (Did or planned this for all of my games)
All Russia has to do is hold the line and Allies WILL win. Again, by the time Germany gets to or MAYBE (and that's a big IF) takes Moscow, the Allies will have Paris and Cairo- cutting them short. Africa has always been controlled by the Brits b/c they are able to build there w/o the threat of Sealion and of course US will be a monster by round 5. Japan is bottled up and suffering economically and Euro Axis runs out of gas- Allies win- simple.
To stop this trend that I am warning you about, unit(s) must be given to Italy and Japan (a couple more land units) or a penalty for the Russians attacking Japan.
Some may say..."let the Russians run around China- who cares???" My anwser- Japan will really care the longer 18inf begin to chomp off a third of their income and give the Pac Allies a landing spot to threaten Japan's home islands.
If the Chinese and Brits fight for Yunnan and wear down the Jap land units also in the early rounds, they will give the US and ANZAC the time they need to port in the Carolines and secure the South Pacific and the DEI. If the Japs get the DEI- I guarantee they will only have it for 1-2 rounds max.
If I had more time I could prove this through furthering my games and playing more...but school is getting my priorities now.
Larry, I believe you are making a grave mistake if you don't give the Axis some help here. Some possible ideas are mentioned above and in my other posts on this thread. Failure to change this and the game WILL be a bid for Allies and give Axis cash- possibly a decent amount.
Is this what you want??? What do you think???
Thanks for considering again.
EDIT- I forgot this aspect as well...
The Med- once US goes to war, opening the Med is a matter of time. Usually Germany has to take Gibr with Italy and use aircraft to defend Gibr or France. Because of that those aircraft are tied up in Gibr and NOT on the Eastern Front- w/o significant aircraft to join the ground forces to match Russia (and that's w/o their 18inf from the East) German WILL NOT win the Eastern Front. By the time the Allies threaten to overwhelm Gibr and the planes give up to fly out to the Eastern Front...then floodgates are released and France/Rome/Cairo fall fast- they will get one or two of these BEFORE Germany can take Russia.
Something to keep in mind:
When Larry changed the AA rules the most important effect on the game has yet to be felt. It makes the bid system more viable. Previously a simple 7ipc bid for the Axis gave Germany an extra transport which would all but gaurantee a sealion campaign. Now we can see a bid of up to 13 ipc's without Sealion being a viable strategy. One could make the case that even 3 German transports is not enough. So for balance purposes and the advanced player we could see axis bids in the high teens. That kind of placement would satisfy most of you guys' wish lists I think.
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