A general rule for Victory Cities to stream line the NO's

Link up A&A Pacific 1940 and Europe 1940, and you've got Axis & Allies Global 1940.
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WILD BILL
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A general rule for Victory Cities to stream line the NO's

Post by WILD BILL » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:42 pm

I re-posted this here in the G40 thread to reach more ppl (was in tt Larry)

Could a general rule for Victory Cities stream line the NO's for G40


Larry, I have asked before why VCs aren't a more intricate part of the game. Many of the NOs are linked to VCs, why not include them all. VCs can measure how well you're doing in a game, and are part of the victory conditions. I could see why you wouldn't want to make all VCs worth 5 IPCs or something, that would give the allies much more income in the beginning, or possibly near the end when they start getting them back.

Lately there has been NO proposals from the community to include a bonus for liberating some VCs like Paris, to entice the US onto the Euro side. NOs at last count were at 33 I believe in Alpha.+2, with more likely come w/Alpha+3. Many are starting to think that that's a lot to remember, as its about double from OOB. Are the NOs becoming the tail that wags the dog?

How about a general "kiss" rule for VC's that would reduce the amount of NO's that are currently in the game, and make all VCs part of the game and more relevant.

Proposal:
VC Capture Bonus of 5 IPCs to the power that captures a tt containing a VC. This would be any VC that starts the game on an original tt of your enemy (not VCs that you start with in your orig tt's). This would be a multi-round bonus that you collect as long as you hold on to the VC tt (including a re-capture). Keep in mind that Shanghai is an orig Chinese tt, so Japan would start with this capture bonus J1 collect income phase.

VC Liberation Bonus, any time that you liberate a VC from the enemy you get a 5 IPC bonus that round. This would be for your VC tt, or one of your allies. You could get this lib bonus multiple times for the same VC if it is traded.



Lets look at what this does to some the existing NOs from Alpha.2

Germany:
2. Collect 5 IPCs per turn for EACH of the following territories, Novgorod (Leningrad), Volgograd (Stalingrad), and/or Russia (Moscow) controlled by the Axis. Theme: High strategic and propaganda value.

6. Collect 5 IPCs per turn that Germany controls the United Kingdom. Theme: High national prestige.


You would be able to delete these, because now they are included in the rules of the game (it's the same 4 tt's). The only difference would be that any axis power would be eligible to receive it, so the loot stays w/axis. Germany normally gets Paris so it would get the extra boost from the get go that many ppl are asking for.

Russia:
3. Collect 10 IPCs, once, for Soviet capture of Berlin (Germany). Theme: National prestige.


This one is reduced to 5 IPC's, but Russia is eligible to receive it for as long as they hold it. It would also become an allied theme, allowing the western allies the opportunity to make extra $ each round if they take it as well. The same would be for Rome. Liberating Paris would also take income away from Germany, and give the liberator a 5 IPC bonus that turn. Now the western allies (US) have a reason to go to Europe, and maybe Paris gets liberated to boot (right now it's not worth it to get Paris back).

Japan:
4. Collect 5 IPCs per turn for each of the following major power centers controlled by an Axis power – Honolulu, Sydney, Calcutta, and/or the Western United States. Theme: Strategic national objectives.


These same tt are still represented in my above proposal. Added to the list is Shanghai (orig Chinese tt Jap starts with), Manila (Involved in a US NO, see below), and Hong Kong (which I think was part of a UK NO OOB Pac40). Maybe now we don't need to add a conquer China NO, because Japan will make some extra income from the get go w/Shanghai. I think this allows Japan to be more patient if it wants to, but Manila & Hong Kong are easy targets if they want to go to war early. In case of an all out kill Jap strat w/US dedicating most of its income on the Pac side, at least Japan would keep earning income from main land China w/just a couple tts.


US:
3. Collect 5 IPCs per turn for controlling the Philippines. Theme: Center of American influence in Asia.


This would work for me if the US got a one time lib bonus, but also took away 5 IPCs from Japan for taking it back.

I didn't list Italy, but w/Egypt being worth 5 IPCs to the axis power that takes it for as long as they hold it, surly it doesn't hurt them. I would most likely remove Egypt from the four corners NO and replace it with Malta. It would be control 3/4 from S France, Gib, Greece, and Malta then. You could consider deleting the German NO for having a ground unit in Egypt, because the axis power that controls it (Italy) would get 5 IPCs, so the income stays w/axis. Plus the fact that in most of the games we have played lately a German inf left over from taking Greece jumps on an Italian tpt and NCM to Egypt. This move, although very effective just seems cheap to me, and in no way represents the Afrika Korps. Germany should have to control a tt in N Africa or an island in the Med to get this NO IMO.



Anyway, I though this was worth some consideration while you are reviewing info for Alpha+3. I know it is a sweeping change, but it would reduce the amount of NO's in the game, which would be a plus IMO (others may be able to be cut, or merged that I haven't looked at here). The axis income would rise as they capture VCs (and hold them), but the allies would make some one turn lib bonuses along the way. If testing proves the axis to strong then you could look at reducing the captured/liberation VC's bonuses to 3 IPC. I addressed this proposal to Larry, but feel free to give comments.

Edit: Because all Capitals are VCs, but have more importance,

Maybe it could be 5 ipc for the capture of a capital VC for as long as you hold it, and the Liberation of a capital gives a one round 5 IPC bonus to the liberator.

All other VC"s could be a 3 IPC capture rule, and a 3 ipc one round lib bonus.

I just think that if Germany was making an extra 5 IPCs for Paris, that the allies (US), would have more interest in liberating it. Plus they would get a one round bonus for doing so. It would be a kiss rule, that would eliminate some of the currant NO's.


Makes sense... There are two conditions and each would be listed as general national objectives. The rules might read something like this:
Victory City Capture Bonus: A power controlling an original enemy territory which contains a Victory City is awarded a 5 IPC bonus during the Collect Income phase of that turn.
Victory City Liberation Bonus: A power that liberates an allied Victory City is awarded a one time 5 IPC bonus during the Collect Income phase of that turn.

I understand that this umbrella Capture/Liberate Victory City rule could replace some of the existing NOs. Good idea. Let me think about it.

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Sparrow
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Re: A general rule for Victory Cities to stream line the NO'

Post by Sparrow » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:12 pm

Wow, do you read minds?

I've been contiplating narrowing down the NO's. I only play the game in-person with people who often times are not very familiar with the game. (This bieng said I cannot bring any kind of high-level play credence to this idea) However Reducing NO's to thier minimal, most important along with a general VC NO is right up my ally as it is easier to remember for new players.
"He who defends everything, defends nothing."

Eagle
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Re: A general rule for Victory Cities to stream line the NO'

Post by Eagle » Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:35 am

WILD BILL wrote: Makes sense... There are two conditions and each would be listed as general national objectives. The rules might read something like this:
Victory City Capture Bonus: A power controlling an original enemy territory which contains a Victory City is awarded a 5 IPC bonus during the Collect Income phase of that turn.
Victory City Liberation Bonus: A power that liberates an allied Victory City is awarded a one time 5 IPC bonus during the Collect Income phase of that turn.

I understand that this umbrella Capture/Liberate Victory City rule could replace some of the existing NOs. Good idea. Let me think about it.
I love this :D
The best rule ever, if it is approved.

Noll
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Re: A general rule for Victory Cities to stream line the NO'

Post by Noll » Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:53 am

Yeah I agree! I really really like it! But some NO's should be kept to balance Axis income vs Allies ones!

GJ!

WILD BILL
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Re: A general rule for Victory Cities to stream line the NO'

Post by WILD BILL » Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:03 am

WILD BILL wrote:I re-posted this here in the G40 thread to reach more ppl (was in tt Larry)

Could a general rule for Victory Cities stream line the NO's for G40

How about a general "kiss" rule for VC's that would reduce the amount of NO's that are currently in the game, and make all VCs part of the game and more relevant.


Makes sense... There are two conditions and each would be listed as general national objectives. The rules might read something like this:
Victory City Capture Bonus: A power controlling an original enemy territory which contains a Victory City is awarded a 5 IPC bonus during the Collect Income phase of that turn.
Victory City Liberation Bonus: A power that liberates an allied Victory City is awarded a one time 5 IPC bonus during the Collect Income phase of that turn.

I understand that this umbrella Capture/Liberate Victory City rule could replace some of the existing NOs. Good idea. Let me think about it.
Thanks for re-visiting this.

Just to note;
The Capture Bonus is for every turn that you hold the VC tt.

I think the way I wrote it would indicate that. Every turn that a player controls an otherwise original enemy controlled VC, that player receives 5 IPCs. - No?

Victory City Capture Bonus: A power controlling an original enemy territory which contains a Victory City is awarded a 5 IPC bonus during the Collect Income phase of that turn.

In any case I'm not at all sure about this approach. It certainly is worth looking into.

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questioneer
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Re: A general rule for Victory Cities to stream line the NO'

Post by questioneer » Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:54 pm

WILD BILL,

Wow!!! Another interesting idea!!! I don't know if I support this, as I would have to think about it more in real gameplay terms and if it favors one side more than the other etc., but it is intriguing for sure!!! :D

WILD BILL
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Re: A general rule for Victory Cities to stream line the NO'

Post by WILD BILL » Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:51 pm

questioneer wrote:WILD BILL,

Wow!!! Another interesting idea!!! I don't know if I support this, as I would have to think about it more in real gameplay terms and if it favors one side more than the other etc., but it is intriguing for sure!!! :D
Yeah, it would definitely need to be tested. The axis gets most of these bonuses through the current NO's. There are a handful of VCs that would give them an extra boost early on that wasn't covered w/NOs. Paris being the one that stands out, but that could encourage the allies (US) to do something about it mid game. My thought was that the liberation part would offset these early axis gains. As for the allies making any $ from the capture part long term, there are only 4 VCs that are orig controlled tt by the axis, and 3 are capitals. Warsaw could be up for grabs, and that is fitting when you figure that's where it all started.

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Re: A general rule for Victory Cities to stream line the NO'

Post by Imperious leader » Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:13 pm

Makes sense... There are two conditions and each would be listed as general national objectives. The rules might read something like this:
Victory City Capture Bonus: A power controlling an original enemy territory which contains a Victory City is awarded a 5 IPC bonus during the Collect Income phase of that turn.
Victory City Liberation Bonus: A power that liberates an allied Victory City is awarded a one time 5 IPC bonus during the Collect Income phase of that turn.

I understand that this umbrella Capture/Liberate Victory City rule could replace some of the existing NOs. Good idea. Let me think about it.
The thread: "The perfect solution for both N.O. haters and N.O. lover"

http://www.harrisgamedesign.com/phpBB3/ ... =40&t=5662

...contains the germ of this concept in whole. We decided that the allies have the advantage anyway so they don't need any special NO's since in games if they get the NO's from OOB, they usually always win. If we just made special VC for the axis and gave them money if they took it it would make more sence because the aggressors are the only party that needs objectives. The allies on the other hand are just concerned with capturing the capitals: they have no special "objectives" because they are just fighting to return the world to peace.

So the imbalance which became a result of the NO's would now only under this proposed idea become the goal of the axis, since they are economically disadvantaged. We further proposed only 3 new NO/VC for each axis nation taken from the list from oob.

The one thing we didn't propose is the "one time payoff" so in this case the amount that is paid should be large. Id like to see at least one of the NO/VC result in a marked decline in the economic of each allied player.

So for example Italy has 3 special VC/ NO of which one effects UK in a negative way. If Italy can cut off the British from their colonial income by closing the Suez, control of Malta, Gibraltar, etc then the UK treasury drops X for a one time loss.

Germany would get one of these against Russia ( Caucasus)

Japan would get one against USA ( Panama and Hawaii, etc)
We really need an Axis and Allies World War one game so i can play that on August 1st, 2014.

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