ALPHA +.2 THEORY CRAFTING THREAD

Link up A&A Pacific 1940 and Europe 1940, and you've got Axis & Allies Global 1940.
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turner
Posts: 297
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:29 pm

Re: ALPHA +.2 THEORY CRAFTING THREAD

Post by turner » Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:33 pm

Since the turn order has been a topic of discussion this past weekend what do you think of the following turn order. It kind of moves from the European to the Pacific Theatre but keeps a pretty good back and forth movement with no two major powers from the same side following each other.

1. Germany
2. United Kingdom
3. Italy
4. Russia
5. France
5. Japan
6. United States
7. Anzac
8. China


Theatre Turn Order
Atlantic & Med: Germany, United Kingdom, Italy, France, United States

Italy and Germany split up the United Kingdom and United States so each turn there are no real can-openers without the other side being able to react.

Pacific: United Kingdom, Japan, United States, Anzac, China

United Kingdom goes before Japan which might cause some to complain but then the UK, US, ANZAC one two three punch is reduced to the United States Anzac and China which is far less imposing

Eastern Front: Germany, Italy, Russia

Germany before Italy so they can still do a one two punch but it is probably not as powerful as the other way around, if Italy even makes it to Russia.

m7574
Posts: 352
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:37 pm

Re: ALPHA +.2 THEORY CRAFTING THREAD

Post by m7574 » Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:56 pm

uk before Japan could create a problem. Japan needs to have the innitiative.

How about moving ANZAC after China in the original turn order?

There are a lot of combo's that work and don't work for various reasons. It's pick your poison, really. The three concerns I have with the current one:

- will china crumble too easily?
- is the USA before UK and back to back too much heat in Europe?
- basically 5 straight allied turns. slows the game down some.

a few weeks will tell.

WILD BILL
Posts: 1487
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 2:24 pm

Re: ALPHA +.2 THEORY CRAFTING THREAD

Post by WILD BILL » Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:11 am

I think the original turn order was ok. Might consider doing 2 things.

1) Don't allow the UK to attack Italy on UK1 (UK only at war w/Germany). Reduce the Italian fleet by 1dd & tpt. This will give Italy the initiative in the Med (they did declare war on UK and start the hostilities). It would allow the UK to prepare for war (move units around before Italy's turn). Italy declared war in June 1940, the Taranto raid didn't happen until Nov 1940 (5 months latter). The UK could still have the power to attack the Italian fleet UK2, or by putting its self in good position could sink a good portion of the Italian fleet if it attacks the RN. I have to give credit to IL for this, as he has been pushing for it for a long time now.

2) Move the Anz turn after the US. I think this would help Japan out a little bit in the Pacific with the Anz can opener for US.

The other turn order I was tossing around was just flip flop the US and UK/Anz in the original order. This gives you what you get in the new order with US going before UK, but allows Italy to be in the middle to counter that big 1-2 punch. It also puts Italy in front of UK so they would initiate the war with UK instead of the other way around (an early axis advantage, until US gets involved). It doesn't allow the UK to prepare for war though so a slight tweak to the med would be needed. Maybe remove an Italian dd & tpt, and beef up the RN/RAF a bit (ftr back on the carrier etc..?). Italy is also still able to lead the way for Germany in Russia. UK/Anz going after US should be an advantage for Japan in the Pacific (like in P40). This would also allow the UK to declare war on Japan for China to get art (but you could move the Chinese right after the US if that was deemed a problem with the orig set up).

Germany
Russia
Japan
USA
Italy
UK
Anz
China
France

turner
Posts: 297
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:29 pm

Re: ALPHA +.2 THEORY CRAFTING THREAD

Post by turner » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:29 am

m7574 wrote:uk before Japan could create a problem. Japan needs to have the innitiative.
I thought about this, but I don't think it would cause too much of a problem. UK does not start out with much in the Pacific. It may actually cause the UK player to be a little more cautious.

If you do a J1 attack currently, then the UK can react aggressively on UK1 with the knowledge that the U.S. is in the war. However, if UK goes first, then an attack on UK1 would bring Japan into the war and keep the US out for three turns. That would be kind of risky for all of the allies. So really if they don't want to bring Japan in without US help then on UK1 what they will do is secure one of the DEI and/or try to put out a blocking ship or two. That is not much of an initiative advantage.

The main advantage they could get would be the ability to place units before Japan. If it proved to be too much you could easily remove 3 infantry and a transport and make them buy them on turn 1. Problem solved.

So the question is really not would putting UK before Japan steal the initiative from Japan, but would it improve overall gameplay and break up the Allied turn order in a better way.
Last edited by turner on Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

m7574
Posts: 352
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:37 pm

Re: ALPHA +.2 THEORY CRAFTING THREAD

Post by m7574 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:36 am

Italy should not hold the innitiative against the UK. I also think the whole "save the Italian boats" thing is blown way out of proportion. As the UK player I believe it is in the UK's best interest to avoid the Italian navy for a couple turns then bring the hammer with overwhelming odds a few turns later. If you are worried about preserving the Italian navy it is a lost cause. Against me you might get to keep it a few turns, but lets face it, that fleet is going to the bottom weather the axis like it or not.

ps - Germany can help delay the inevitable by building airbases and/or using an IC, but the more money Germany sinks into a Med campaign the better off the allies will be down the road. UK will always have staying power and if the axis try to keep up Germany will never get a sniff of moscow. Some manuevering is possible for the axis, maybe enough to hold egypt for long enough to build an IC and reinforce that way.

I think the Germans saving all their money on G1 is in the Italians best interest, should you want to persuade the UK to leave the Med fleet alone. I don't agree with Italy moving before the UK.

turner
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Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:29 pm

Re: ALPHA +.2 THEORY CRAFTING THREAD

Post by turner » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:50 am

In this game, even with the sinking of half of the Italian fleet on turn 1 they still have a good shot at taking Egypt. Italy is a minor power. They start with an Income of only 10 ipc for goodness sake. You have to decide what you want to do with them.

Take the med- If you want to take the med you will need to take S. France or Greece and Yugoslavia with the Italians. Then you can build more transports and ferry units into Africa.

Help Germany - If you want Italy to help in Russia you need to build units to take East. Use your existing fleet to do what damage you can.

Italy should not be a major power that can do everything at once. With good planning and strategy you can do a lot more with them than you should be able to.

The setup gives Italy a lot more power/units than they actually had because it is hard to get German units to Africa and because the UK has the initiative. If the initiative is passed to Italy they will lose a lot of units and then people will be complaining about that. Just remember, they are a MINOR power, you know like ANZAC.

m7574
Posts: 352
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:37 pm

Re: ALPHA +.2 THEORY CRAFTING THREAD

Post by m7574 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:56 am

turner,
Japan just needs to hold innitiative over the UK. It wouldn't be right otherwise. Japan is powerful enough to deal with a UK-first turn order, it's just not right to me. I think the answer is moving the ANZAC turn. My first thought was to move them up before Japan, but someone else suggested moving them after the USA.
I think that may be best. Of course I am referring to the original turn order.

As an allied player I love the USA then UK in back to back moves and is probably historically acurate. But that may bring too much punch to an allied invasion in Europe. Maybe they need it, as the axis has gotten a lot of extra punch as of late.
But my gut says move the USA back in the order where they were and give them back the units they lost in alpha+.2

turner
Posts: 297
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:29 pm

Re: ALPHA +.2 THEORY CRAFTING THREAD

Post by turner » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:21 pm

m7574 wrote:turner,
Japan just needs to hold innitiative over the UK. It wouldn't be right otherwise. Japan is powerful enough to deal with a UK-first turn order, it's just not right to me.
This I can understand, some things just feel right one way or another to people. That is what I think about U.S. entry in this game, it just doesn't feel right to me.

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