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Re: ALPHA +.2 THEORY CRAFTING THREAD

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:49 pm
by WILD BILL
Yeah sometimes Moscow ends up with a ton of inf (depends on who's playing it). Even if it was 20 units you can't justify turning them all to 3's for just the cost of 4 1/2 inf (14 ipc's). I think that the IC in Ukraine may promote more fighting early on though. I would think as the Russian player your rule might make "the turtle" the best option (more bang for your buck in the end game)
I could get on board with reducing it to 1 ipc (instead of 2) per adjacent tt, and only effect art. I still don't think that having adjacent tt as part of the cost is all that KISS though.

I would like to look at art getting a boost w/o any buying or tech. Simply say that an art gets +1 boost in def any time there are 2 inf paired with it. As the battle goes on and you loose inf then you loose the boost. This is much more KISS, and doesn't require any extra stuff. That way if you use art to attack (and they survive) you can bring in a couple inf in the NCM to get the def bonus. The one thing I don't like is when you use art at the front, they are exposed, so this would promote more use of art at the front. It would only last one round in most cases, and would give you another reason to buy art.

Re: ALPHA +.2 THEORY CRAFTING THREAD

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:52 pm
by mantlefan
The new turn order might make Italy starting out neutral more appropriate.

Re: ALPHA +.2 THEORY CRAFTING THREAD

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:57 pm
by Imperious leader
Well if you look at the whole of WW2 and study the various episodes that did include defenders behind what a fortification might entail, you will find that infantry are the major component involved in this. The artillery in this case are fixed ( not movable) guns with various machine gun nests and what not.

The fortification must include infantry. But i have a new idea to solve your example.

The cost is fixed at 2 IPC, plus a variable cost of 1 IPC per IPC of the TT.

BUT the limit on effects gives a bonus only equal to the IPC value of the territory.

So a fortification can only be built up to levels up to the IPC of the area. A 6 IPC territory could only potentially boost 6 infantry/artillery.

This preserves the cost discount for small islands and measures the potency in manner that eliminates any possibility of your 'glitch scenario'.

Moscow fortification would cost a total of 5 IPC, and benefit 3 infantry/art with +1 defense @3).

Germany proper is costing 7 IPC and aid 5 units in this manner.

You could also include the possibility of bombing the fortifications, and reducing them by SBR ( using chips to track damage).

This new idea is not really different than the ports, AB or NB but instead the boost is not movement but a defensive bonus.

Re: ALPHA +.2 THEORY CRAFTING THREAD

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:58 pm
by Imperious leader
The new turn order might make Italy starting out neutral more appropriate
Not needed. Just make Italy neutral till her turn, so she cant be attacked till after her turn.

KISS

Re: ALPHA +.2 THEORY CRAFTING THREAD

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:16 pm
by mantlefan
Imperious leader wrote:
The new turn order might make Italy starting out neutral more appropriate
Not needed. Just make Italy neutral till her turn, so she cant be attacked till after her turn.

KISS
So you're saying Italy should be neutral until Italy's turn. I don't see how that's in contrast to what I said. If italy is neutral till Italy's turn, doesn't it start out neutral?

Re: ALPHA +.2 THEORY CRAFTING THREAD

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:52 pm
by Imperious leader
It starts neutral till it starts the war. Whoever heard of the allies getting the first shot against the axis. The OOB basically allows the British to perform their own Pearl Harbor attack like a surprise attack against Italy before they even get going.

It is in contrast because this solution does not involve any turn order changes, only neutrality is changed for Italy till after UK's turn.

Re: ALPHA +.2 THEORY CRAFTING THREAD

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:15 pm
by mantlefan
Imperious leader wrote:It starts neutral till it starts the war. Whoever heard of the allies getting the first shot against the axis. The OOB basically allows the British to perform their own Pearl Harbor attack like a surprise attack against Italy before they even get going.

It is in contrast because this solution does not involve any turn order changes, only neutrality is changed for Italy till after UK's turn.
The turn order already changed. I still don't see why you have a point. Italy's turn being second to last allows the potential to counter US moves into morocco/gibraltar (assuming J1 attack). Anyways, it allows exactly what you talked about, Axis striking first, in this case on USA and UK in the med for italy. Now a lot depends on strat for UK/USA, but that option is there.

So as I said before, Italy, starting out neutral is more appropriate with the new turn order. (Like it or not, it's changed)

Re: ALPHA +.2 THEORY CRAFTING THREAD

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:58 pm
by Imperious leader
The turn order already changed. I still don't see why you have a point. Italy's turn being second to last allows the potential to counter US moves into morocco/Gibraltar (assuming J1 attack).
New Turn Order:
1st. German
2nd. Soviet Union
3rd. Japan
4th. United States
5th. China
6th. UK (London – Calcutta)
7th. ANZAC
8th. Italy
9th. France
This is the new turn order from Larry. Italy plays after UK, so the point in case you didn't understand is that Italy is neutral (under my proposal) while UK takes her turn, so she cant be attacked. In OOB UK had good prospects to sink at least one of the Italian fleets off Italy via Gibraltar. Now during her turn she starts with her complete fleet intact to start her war. If UK takes out the Italian fleet, she is already in a poor position at start. Thats the point.