SCENARIO ALPHA PACIFIC 40

This game, measuring 35”x32” is compatible with the yet to be released Axis & Allies Europe 1940 game (coming in August 2010). This game includes newly introduced units such as mechanized infantry and tactical bombers.
kungfujew
Posts: 216
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:23 pm

Re: SCENARIO ALPHA PACIFIC 40

Post by kungfujew » Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:29 pm

It could just be me but from my experiences playing the game a better choice would be to let the US collect their Phi 'no' when not at war instead. In my first game with ikaros, being able to spend 55 on turn 2 instead of three would have been almost instant death to Japan. I don't know if you've checked out the link to our rematch, but that game is on turn 4 and the war started on UK 1 with a "pearl harbour" attack on the Japanese at Java and Malaya. The US just got to declare war on their turn 3 collect income phase and the game is still way up in the air. The +5 for the Phi would have been welcome in both games, but not so instantly detrimental to Japan. On a J1 attack Japan is already being aggressive and this will force them to be even more aggressive, possibly to the point of taking foolish chances to get ahead before the us steamroller gets there. It'll make regular conservative Jap play very dangerous as well on a regular turn 2 or 3 attack pushing those to the other extreme of extra conservative play to try to keep back the US as they get a huge instant boost.

Anywho, maybe that's just my opinion, and maybe I'm just a decent Jap player and a great allied one, but I feel that I could have really decimated my Jap oponents in most of our games (since they're always close games already), if I was able to buy with the +40 right off the bat.

Don't take all that the wrong way as I'm very curious as to why you think it's nessissary Larry, as I know I don't understand the reasoning behind it and would like you to explain your reasoning. If you don't mind. :D

Larry
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Re: SCENARIO ALPHA PACIFIC 40

Post by Larry » Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:52 pm

Hey Kungfujew…
First of all thanks so much for all your hard work of the past weeks.
Explaining my reasoning…

Allow me to be brief.

My concerns are with the number of Victory Cities the Japanese can relatively easily capture rather quickly… With the capture of Pearl Harbor, followed by a quick push to Sydney, the Japanese can end up controlling 6 VC. I think it is important that the US either recapture Pearl Harbor or tie up this large concentrated Japanese force, thus denying Japan it’s 6th VC.

I think the loss of Hawaii to a Japanese invasion would have prompted an “Emergency Response” that is reflected by the immediate influx of the 40 IPC it is normally awarded when at war. To be clear… when I say “immediate” I’m talking about the US player having this bonus income available for his or her next purchase following the DoW.

I’m always interested in other solutions to this issue but at this time see this “Immediate40” to be a viable remedy. I can see how this might only be applicable if Hawaii is attacked or something like that but I’d rather avoid that kind of specifics in the rules.

calvinhobbesliker
Posts: 554
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Re: SCENARIO ALPHA PACIFIC 40

Post by calvinhobbesliker » Sun Sep 26, 2010 1:17 pm

Larry wrote:Hey Kungfujew…
First of all thanks so much for all your hard work of the past weeks.
Explaining my reasoning…

Allow me to be brief.

My concerns are with the number of Victory Cities the Japanese can relatively easily capture rather quickly… With the capture of Pearl Harbor, followed by a quick push to Sydney, the Japanese can end up controlling 6 VC. I think it is important that the US either recapture Pearl Harbor or tie up this large concentrated Japanese force, thus denying Japan it’s 6th VC.

I think the loss of Hawaii to a Japanese invasion would have prompted an “Emergency Response” that is reflected by the immediate influx of the 40 IPC it is normally awarded when at war. To be clear… when I say “immediate” I’m talking about the US player having this bonus income available for his or her next purchase following the DoW.

I’m always interested in other solutions to this issue but at this time see this “Immediate40” to be a viable remedy. I can see how this might only be applicable if Hawaii is attacked or something like that but I’d rather avoid that kind of specifics in the rules.

So if Japan does a J1 attack, the US has 57 to spend on its first turn?

Caractacus
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Location: Turku, Finland

Re: SCENARIO ALPHA PACIFIC 40

Post by Caractacus » Sun Sep 26, 2010 2:10 pm

Larry wrote:Hey Kungfujew…
First of all thanks so much for all your hard work of the past weeks.
Explaining my reasoning…

Allow me to be brief.

My concerns are with the number of Victory Cities the Japanese can relatively easily capture rather quickly… With the capture of Pearl Harbor, followed by a quick push to Sydney, the Japanese can end up controlling 6 VC. I think it is important that the US either recapture Pearl Harbor or tie up this large concentrated Japanese force, thus denying Japan it’s 6th VC.

I think the loss of Hawaii to a Japanese invasion would have prompted an “Emergency Response” that is reflected by the immediate influx of the 40 IPC it is normally awarded when at war. To be clear… when I say “immediate” I’m talking about the US player having this bonus income available for his or her next purchase following the DoW.

I’m always interested in other solutions to this issue but at this time see this “Immediate40” to be a viable remedy. I can see how this might only be applicable if Hawaii is attacked or something like that but I’d rather avoid that kind of specifics in the rules.
Doesn't this sound a little like 'If Japan looks like it's going to win, this should stop it'...? (At least the explanation does...
Caractacus.

kungfujew
Posts: 216
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:23 pm

Re: SCENARIO ALPHA PACIFIC 40

Post by kungfujew » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:11 am

Okay, well try it out with the US +40 immidiate on our next game.

We finished our rematch and there was too much stuff going on each turn to give a detailed turn by turn summary, but the basics were that Japan began with very aggressive positioning of it's fleet with a cruiser in sz37 and a carrier in sz 42. The uk took this chance to take the fight right to the japs off the bat and sunk both, blocking sz37 and taking sumatra. They bought subs that turn. The game continued with japan hammering the anzac navy nd the uk subs attacking and sinking what they could and the us was kept out of the war until the end of turn 3. They then launced an attack that took the celebs and sumatra, splitting the jap fleet by blocking sz 37 and keeping them from retaking the whole DEI. Anzac finaly was able to place a bb a cruiser a transport and a dd and was ready to spearhead the allied push to retake the whol dei, releive pressure off india and push for the win, when I made a colossal error. When I planned out the moves, a fully loaded us carrier was supposed to stay and protect the anzac navy, but when the moves were typed up the carrier was moved and this left a huge opening. As any good player does, my opponent had strategically placed 5 subs around waiting for an opportunity and seeing this oppening, sunk the whole anzac navy and flipped the game from an allied advantage to an axis one. At this point I was forced to surrender as I was too pissed off at myself to continue, but by this time the point had been proved. Regardless of who had the slight edge, it was a very close game and was eventually decided rather than by starting units or dice, by one player making an error, and the other player, having spread out their forces strategically, was able to capitalize on it and take the initiative and turn the tide. This seems like the proper way a game like axis and allies should end and the "alpha" changes make that possible. Aside from whatever minor tweeks Larry has in mind before it becomes and official change, this is, in my opinion a great change and very well balanced.

Blitchga
Posts: 94
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Location: Calgary, Canada

Re: SCENARIO ALPHA PACIFIC 40

Post by Blitchga » Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:54 am

I am not sure if this is technically in the right spot or not. I have tried out the Alhpa set up three times with my group but it has been in Global games...

It is late so I will have to write in more detail tomorrow but the main thing that I wanted to make sure got on here early was that the Alpha set up seems to push Japan to declare war on the Soviets on J1. Prior to war with the US, Uk and ANZAC forces it is so easy to take 5 ipc from the Soviets that they will never see back by J2. Was it realized that all those extra land units could just stomp in Soviet territory without much repercussion? As I said I will elaborate more tomorrow.

Oakshield
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Re: SCENARIO ALPHA PACIFIC 40

Post by Oakshield » Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:35 am

Regarding 'Immediate 40': this seems to overpower the US, and work too much against early Japan attacks. If the concern is Japan taking Honolulu and then Sydney, shouldn't the reaction be coming from the other side of the board? I think that is the way the Allies should play, instead of relying on a 'super US'.

Fastest scenario is a J1 Hawaii attack, J2 positioning, J3 Sydney. An agressive UK player can build a carrier and have it sitting in Singapore on UK 2, together with the Indian fleet and a transport, threatening the VCs of HK, Shangai and Manila (the last almost impossible to block) on UK3. If changes are needed to make the UK more agressive, one infantry could be swapped by one artillery in Singapore.

If this is not enough, how about giving artillery to China? The Burma road is open in the beginning of the game, and it would help China push for HK (or even Shangai) if Japan attempts to consolidate its Western VCs. In a game where Japan goes for China this artillery would be taken out anyway.

Whackamatt
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Re: SCENARIO ALPHA PACIFIC 40

Post by Whackamatt » Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:40 pm

And Whack is back from the real world stuff.

I'm not sure about the US needing the instant 40. So far the reports from KFJ have been of Allied victories without it.

The next game my group plays will be with this setup, without the 40 bonus, and Japan will try for Hawaii and Sydney.


It feels as though the balance has shifted closer to the 50/50 mark, but that's only with a Japan going for India strategy. I am intrigued by the victory through Australia.

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