Flashman's Deluxe Concept Map

We've talked about Advanced A&A... Now I'd like to hear your comments on what YOU envision a DELUXE A&A GAME to be. What would it look like.
elbowsanchez
Posts: 1324
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 1:45 am
Location: Western Boogerland
Contact:

Flashman's Deluxe Concept Map

Post by elbowsanchez » Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:21 pm

-The evil Bert & friend

User avatar
Craig A Yope
Posts: 820
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:23 am
Location: Saint Clair, MI

Post by Craig A Yope » Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:57 am

Wow!

I must admit that this is your best map by far!

The roundels are amazing. I have tracked down a bunch, but you have the mother load.

Good stuff.

Craig

User avatar
adlertag
Posts: 1445
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 3:28 pm
Location: norway

Post by adlertag » Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:15 am

Too many territories, too many sea-zones, too much IPC income wich led to overcrowding and too many dice rolls.

But nice try, kid :D

User avatar
Flashman
Posts: 951
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 6:32 am
Location: Greater East Yorkshire Co-Prosperity Sphere

Post by Flashman » Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:49 pm

Thanks for the post, Elbow.

Too many sea zones? As I explained, the wider oceans are needed to bring naval action to life. How many big sea battles were there in the last game you played?
Lots of island bases for ship refueling - try to get your head round the idea. I've added the naval bases to the latest version.

Japanese/Soviet NA treaty means Japan needs new options; more areas in India/Indocine for J & UK to fight over. Major US forces now in SWPacific creates bigger commitment here, ref: Battle of the Coral Sea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Coral_Sea

Too many territories and too much income = too many units? Surely these factors balance out. I LIKE big battles. I HATE empty territories.

If anyone knows of any roundels I've missed let me know, but they have to be ones in use in June 1942. Obviously those of countries too small for the map (e.g. Slovakia) have to be left out. For occupied territories they have to be those of collaborationist regimes.

Full draft of rules to accompany this coming soon.

Rising_Sun_Warrior
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:27 am
Location: Japan

Post by Rising_Sun_Warrior » Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:08 pm

Overall good map. I'd love to play with this. I like the increase in territories and the increase in sea zones. I agree with you completely on the new naval options for Japan! There is no real naval strategy for Japan or Germany. If either Axis navy attempts to engage and defeat the Allied fleets, and loses, then it is nigh impossible to recover. Especially Germany, when their fleet is lost it typically isn't replaced ever due to Germany's land commitments. And if Japan's fleet is lost then the whole country is at risk. But the newer wider seas offer places to blockade and something new entirely, escape routes. Now the Axis can at least try to get away from an opposing fleet long enough to have a ghost of a chance near the end of the game. I like the idea.

I also like the impassible areas. The Sahara needs to be included in Africa though. But Congo, Amazon, and Pripyet are great. Is Pripyet impassible? Maybe it's not but it looks marshy on the map.

Another question, and maybe this is the wrong place to ask, but what happens to the neutral countries' colonies. If the Axis takes over Chile or Ecuador or any other country with African or Pacific colonies do they also take those colonies? Just a question I was wondering about.

Finals words, and I hate to come back to this but seeing it on the map really makes it stand out AND seem so wrong. Why does Italy have Finland? It looks so out of place. It really would be better if Italy, and I can see what you meant earlier by including Italy and the Minor Axis nations together now that I can actually see it, but it really would be better if Germany controlled Finland. Then Germany takes everything to the north and Italy takes everything to the south. Problem solved.

Great map!

RSW
"In wartime the truth is so precious, she must always be attended by a bodyguard of lies" -Winston Churchill

User avatar
Flashman
Posts: 951
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 6:32 am
Location: Greater East Yorkshire Co-Prosperity Sphere

Post by Flashman » Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:50 pm

Believe it or not I actually considered having japan control Finland at one point, so the japan player didn't feel left out of Europe.

But no, I think Italy is best as it gives the Axis another one-two option against Russia.

I'm working on a Word file with all my proposed rules, this will explain the fate of colonies amongst much else.

Naval bases have been added, and they will provide a (relatively) safe haven for ships, thus further preserving expensive Navy.

I'm a little surprised nobody has (as far as a I know) come up with the Australia-USA option. It makes perfect sense and immediately makes the Pacific a combat zone with the USA really needing to protect Australia.

Also, Berlin now in Prussia! Stay tuned.
Last edited by Flashman on Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Flashman
Posts: 951
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 6:32 am
Location: Greater East Yorkshire Co-Prosperity Sphere

Post by Flashman » Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:52 pm

Rough draught of rules
Ideas welcome on effects of terrain and weather

AXIS AND ALLIES COMPLETE V.1

By Clausewitz

Rules to accompany the A&AC Map

I will describe rules only as far as they differ from the official LHTR versions.

1. MAP

As well as introducing new territories the topography is different in that the two main oceans are considerably wider. This is deliberate. I am considering terrain and how this will effect movement and combat. For now assume all land areas are the same.

For the moment no convoy boxes. The assumption is that the wider oceans will create plenty of “real” convoy action without the need for abstract convoy boxes.

The Naval Bases serve as repair facilities for damaged ships, and those covering two sea zones confer movement advantages. A ship may take refuge in a naval base instead of always being at sea.

The two Chinese factions are coloured differently to indicate that they operate under different rules.

Vichy French territory is controlled by Italy for all purposes, but see the “Vichy” option.

Note that the eastern territories held by Germany are treated as Soviet areas under German occupation. Soviet partisan units begin in Pripet area.

Counting the Bosporus, there are three canals which each lie completely within ONE territory. Ships cannot end a turn in a canal as if they were in harbour.

2. POWERS

There are six “powers”. The “Italy” player controls the Axis minor nations of Finland, Croatia(Southern Europe), Romania(Balkans) and Vichy France.

Hungarian forces are included in the German “Central Europe” area.

The USSR player also controls the Chinese Communist Party units.

The USA player controls the Kuomintang (KMT) units. The United States also now includes control of all Allied Pacific territories, including Australia. This represents the historical agreement by the Allies to give command of all forces in the south-west Pacific to the American general Douglas MacArthur, who moved his base to Australia and assumed command of all Australian home forces in May 1942.

In all the above cases the IPC income from all nations controlled by a power are pooled, and spent as that player chooses. Even though infantry placed in a national area represent individual units, they function in the same way as any other unit of that power.

Exception: CCP units may attack Japan!

2. THE JAPANESE/SOVIET NON-AGGRESSION TREATY

This rule states that:

1. USSR units may not attack Japanese units, enter Japanese owned territory or enter Japanese occupied sea zones UNLESS at least one Axis power has surrendered.
2. Japanese units may not attack USSR units, enter USSR owned territory or enter USSR occupied sea zones UNLESS at least one Allied power has surrendered.
3. Exception: CCP units and Japanese forces can attack each other at any time. Note that USSR and CCP units cannot enter each other’s territory.

3. JAPANESE/SOVIET XENOPHOBIA

The two alliances are looser than previously. UK/USA and Germany/Italy can co-operate to the extent of sharing and liberating each other’s territory, and transporting each other’s units on transports and carriers. However Japan and USSR do not co-operate with their allies. They may never share territory with them, nor move into areas they control, nor fly over their territory on combat missions. Nor may they “liberate” allied territory under enemy occupation UNLESS the original owner has surrendered, in which case the territory is annexed.

Exceptions: aircraft from each of the two “halves” of an alliance may land in the other’s territory after a mission. They are considered to be refuelling, and may not participate in the defence of that territory. If the territory is captured they are removed. This does not apply to UK/USA after attacking Japanese territory/units, nor to Germany/Italy after attacking Russia. In these cases the aircraft may make the attacks, but on landing they are interned (removed).

Example: UK and USA may not enter or attack Soviet home territories even if they are Axis occupied. The USSR may not enter or attack UK/US home territory. Note that for these purposes Ostland, West Russia and Ukraine are regarded as Soviet home areas.
The same applies to the Axis powers regarding Japan and Germany/Italy.

Note: There are several important effects of the above rules. The USSR is no longer under early threat from Japan, so may shift forces west. However the western allies can no longer aid the USSR directly by transporting units to defend Soviet territory. These factors should balance out the eastern front.
Japan can no longer launch an early invasion of Russia, so must choose different strategies such as driving towards India, occupying all of China, attacking the Allied forces in the south-west Pacific, or threatening the USA directly in a major Pacific war.

4. TERMS OF SURRENDER & VICTORY

Although there are still “Victory Cities”, they work in a different way. Instead of accumulating a set number of VCs, the aim is to knock rival powers out of the game by forcing them to surrender.

A power automatically surrenders when it controls no more than one of it’s original four starting VCs, regardless of how many enemy cities it may hold. This can happen at the end of any enemy player’s combat round.

When a power surrenders it is PERMANENTLY out of the game. It may not re-enter, even if it’s VCs are captured by it’s Allies. All it’s combat units are removed, and ownership of territories it holds is determined as follows:
Physical occupation takes precedence; enemy units which have just occupied territory take control of it. Additionally, allied units in occupation of areas owned by the surrendering power take control of those. Example: if Italy surrenders and there are German units in Southern Europe, Germany takes control of this former Italian owned area.
Areas which, after the removal of surrendering units, have no combat units remaining (exception: AA guns) become “uncontrolled” and will be gained by the first power of any alliance to move ground units into them.

There is no surrender of cash to the occupying power.

Victory conditions based on the number of enemy powers surrendering can be agreed by players before the game. If tied the greater number of VCs overall determines a winner.

Possible 5th VC for each power: Kiev, Athens, Addis Ababa, Batavia, Honolulu, Vladivostok?

5. NEUTRAL NATIONS

Neutral countries are no longer impassable. They may be attacked by any power, but have their own forces to defend themselves. Immediately a neutral is attacked, it joins the opposing alliance and control of it’s income and forces goes to a rival player. Note that some neutrals have several territories, they all become active if any one of them is attacked.

Once a neutral is “at war” it is simply absorbed into the controlling power. It cannot be “liberated”, but simply falls under control of whoever occupies it.
The following determines which power controls a neutral which is attacked:

Neutrals attacked by the Axis:

All South American countries - USA
Mongolia - USSR
All others - UK

Neutrals attacked by the Allies:

Peru, Ecuador, Colombia, Venezuela, Brazil, Mongolia - Japan
Sweden, Switzerland, Eire, Afghanistan, Bolivia, Paraguay - Germany
Spain, Portugal, Turkey, Argentina, Uruguay, Chile - Italy

6. COMBAT UNITS

Changes to unit abilities:
INFANTRY to defend on one except when in mountainous terrain, or facing amphibious assault. This is dependent on terrain features being implemented.

TANKS limited to one movement point except when blitzing.

CAPITAL SHIPS take two turns to build, i.e. on the first turn you lay down the hull, on the second you complete the ship as either battleship or carrier. A hull costs 10 IPCs, with the remainder paid when you complete the ship.

BATTLESHIPS when damaged fight at 2-2, and must reach a naval base to repair. Unit cost is reduced to 20 IPCs.

CARRIERS when damaged carry only one fighter, and must reach a naval base to repair. They take two hits to sink, but fight at only 1-1 in all circumstances.

I’ve yet to be persuaded of the need for new unit types; would mechanised infantry or cruisers really add very much? Rather, I prefer new units to be technical developments of existing types.
The following techs are purchased in the same way, but what you get is the ABILITY to produce the new unit, there are no automatic conversions. Hence you can only build the new unit the turn after you obtain the tech. The tech units cost the same as the originals, however since they have certain disadvantages you may choose to continue producing the basic type.

HEAVY TANKS 4-4, but cannot blitz. USSR starts with this tech.
HEAVY ARTILLERY 3-3, but cannot move and fight in the same turn. In an attack they may bombard an adjacent territory in opening fire (no counter). Can move only in non-combat. Do not support infantry.
Both the above have same ship transport rules, but HArt cannot be part of an amphibious assault.
LONG-RANGE FIGHTERS move 6, but fight at 3-3.
JET FIGHTERS fight at 4-4, but on landing crash on 1/6.
HEAVY BOMBERS move 8, but attack on 3 in normal combat.
LONG-RANGE SUBMARINES move 3, but ????????? Must surface?

Other Techs

ROCKETS No longer connected to AA guns. A stand alone rocket unit costs 2 IPCs, can move 1 land territory and can be fired at a range of 2 areas, hitting on a 3 or less. It explodes on launch 1/6 and has no combat value in a normal battle nor can it be taken as a casualty.

Tech 8 ???????

Since they may exist simultaneously, it is necessary to have pieces to represent all types of a unit. Either find pieces from another game, or paint some pieces to represent techs, e.g. a white stripe on the wings indicates that a fighter is the long-range version.

7. SHIP MOVEMENT

The range of warships was strictly limited by their ability to refuel at friendly ports.
Each and every turn, all a player’s ships and submarines MUST refuel. They can do this at any time on their turn by docking at a friendly port. It costs no movement points to enter or leave a port, which can be anywhere on the coastline of an adjacent friendly land territory. It need not contain a naval base. Refuelling does not end a ship’s movement, so a ship starting at sea can move into port, refuel, then move back out to sea again.
It will be seen that this increases the importance of obtaining “chains” of land areas, sometimes just small islands, to facilitate the movement of your ships over greater ranges, as all ships must remain within two sea zones of a friendly port. A ship may plan to refuel after combat, i.e. when attacking ships occupying a sea zone adjacent to a friendly port. However it may not “gamble” on the capture of a hostile port and can never move out of friendly refuelling range. Ships which cannot refuel are lost, i.e. if the only friendly port available has been captured by the enemy between moves.

8. NAVAL BASES AND SHIPS IN PORT

A number of land/sea borders have naval bases. A ship may dock in a naval base (and may refuel there) and REMAIN THERE INDEFINATELY. It is not regarded as “at sea” and cannot be engaged in naval combat as it has the protection of the base. However, if the territory in which the base is located comes under attack, ships in port cannot fight in it’s defence. They may however be taken as casualties. If the territory is captured the ships are captured with it, and may be converted to the new owner’s pieces during his place new units phase.

A ship in port is placed over the appropriate base symbol, and must leave the territory by the same border. But note that some bases cover two sea zones and in these cases the ship may leave by either border. A ship declaring itself “in port” ends it’s move, i.e. it cannot move out again using another border in the same turn to gain a bonus movement point.

Naval bases also repair Battleships and Aircraft Carriers that have been damaged in combat. Possible 1 IPC cost?

9. RAIL MOVEMENT

The majority of movement of land forces was still by rail. Tanks did not use up vital fuel driving to combat zones but were loaded onto trains just like infantry. Therefore - tanks only move one space overland EXCEPT when blitzing.
During NON-COMBAT MOVEMENT ONLY, ground units may be moved by rail. They can move an unlimited distance through friendly territories.
Possible armoured train piece?
Do rails need to be marked on the map, i.e. excluding some areas for terrain/

10. SBR

I favour something along AAP lines with escort fighters

11. TURN SEQUENCE

1. Collect income
2. Purchase units
3. Develop weapons
Techs are now separate units. You cannot convert existing units, so it takes a while to bring tech pieces into play.
No need for money, but how do we deal with SBR? Destroy units just placed at the relevant factory, without them having the chance to fire back?
4. Movement
Still don’t see a need for a separate ncm phase. CAP units are simply moved out to sea during one movement phase and must land the next (to refuel). In effect aircraft move like ships; they can end a move at sea (provided they have enough fuel to make the return journey) then use up the remaining fuel landing next turn. Remember that units cannot rail into combat. For simplicities sake make combat moves first, then nc moves, then conduct combat.
5. Conduct combat
6. Place new units
Place units as for infantry recruitment rules first. The remainder at ICs.

12. NATIONAL ADVANTAGES

Not a great fan of these. Most are unbalancing and gimmicky, and those good things about them I’ve incorporated in the general rules.

13. SETUP

When I’m absolutely happy with the map I’ll try putting together a June 1942 piece setup. Including Generals!

14. DEFENDER RETREATS

Simply insert defender retreat option into the combat sequence between “remove casualties” and “press attack or retreat”. Defenders can retreat to any adjacent land or sea territory as appropriate, land units can be evacuated to transports.

15. COMPLEXES

All industrial territories are indicated on the map, so there is no need to use IC pieces (though you may still choose to do). No new complexes may be built, nor can they move (the Soviet IC at Chelyabinsk represents the Ukrainian factories moved to the Urals, a process in place by June 1942.)
You cannot use an enemy industrial complex. By capturing one you merely deny it’s use to the enemy power.
Possible SOVIET IC in Ukraine, cannot be used by Germany?

16. SEASONS OF THE YEAR

The game begins in Summer (June-July-August) 1942 at the height of Axis expansion, just before the battle of Midway. Each round will represent one complete season, with certain effects relevant to each.
Need help with this!

17. TERRAIN EFFECTS

Mountainous areas: (yet to be marked) give defensive bonus.

Deserts: Units can move through (and fly over), but not remain in, i.e. blitz? No rail movement.

Marsh (Pripet): Only infantry may enter here (starts with Soviet partisans). Aircraft may fly over but not attack.

Impassable: Aircraft fly over?

18. OPTIONS

Vichy Rule: Vichy units may not move out of Vichy territory.

19. INFANTRY RECRUITMENT

It is possible to place purchased infantry in certain territories which do not have industrial complexes. The following territories qualify provided the relevant power controls it at the end of his combat phase. Only one infantry may be placed per turn per territory. These represent the many soldiers of small nations who fought in the war.

UK: Ontario, B. Columbia, B. West Indies, B. West Africa, B. East Africa, Sind, Punjab, C. India, Bengal, Carnatic, Malabar (maximum 3 each turn in all Indian territories), N. France, S. France, Italy, S. Europe (Chetniks)

USA: N. France, S. France, Italy, Philippines, ANY Chinese area including Kwangtung, Chihili and Kiangsu (maximum 3 each turn in all Chinese territories), New Zealand, S. Brazil

USSR: CCP units in ANY Chinese area (maximum 3 each turn in all Chinese territories), Ukraine, Ostland, West Russia, Balkans (Bulgarians), S. Europe (Titoists), C. Europe (Czechs)
Partisans: Every time USSR captures a land territory from Germany it gains one partisan infantry in that area from oppressed citizens.

JAPAN: Korea, Thailand, ANY Indian area (maximum 3 each turn in all Indian areas) (INA), Western USA (Japanese-Americans), Peru, N. Brazil, S. Brazil

ITALY: Balkans (Romanians), Finland, S. Europe (Croatians), I.E. Africa, Egypt, Trans-Jordan, Iraq (Arab Legion), Eastern USA (Italian-Americans), Argentina
Spanish Blue Legion: As long as Spain is neutral and USSR has not surrendered, place one infantry in north or south Spain at the start of the Italian turn. This unit must be moved off Spanish soil by the end of the turn. It cannot attack Spain itself!

GERMANY: Central USA (German-Americans), West Russia (ROA), Ostland, Ukraine (Hiwis), Paraguay
Osttruppen: every time Germany captures a land territory from the USSR it gains one volunteer infantry there from anti-communist citizens.

Larry
Posts: 3090
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:44 am

Post by Larry » Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:03 pm

This represents a lot of work Flashman. I think you're having too much fun too. SO KNOCK IT OFF...

:) :lol:

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests