6 PLAYER GAME

We've talked about Advanced A&A... Now I'd like to hear your comments on what YOU envision a DELUXE A&A GAME to be. What would it look like.

WHO YOU WANT AS 6'TH PLAYER ?

ITALY
11
41%
CHINA
1
4%
WESTERN USA
4
15%
KEEP IT A 5 PLAYER GAME
11
41%
 
Total votes: 27

Rising_Sun_Warrior
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Post by Rising_Sun_Warrior » Sun May 27, 2007 9:47 pm

The "Axis minors" can't be controlled by Italy because Italy itself was German controlled. The entire concept of "minor" power is based on a weaker nation allying (or being directly controlled by) a stronger nation. In this case Germany was the top dog and as such controlled ALL of the "minor" nations. Italy was a minor nation and a second rate power. To imply that Italy's threadbare forces, still not yet recovered from the Spanish Civil War, was in any way ready to occupy or administer over a small country like Albania is in itself overly optimistic (as the Italians soon discovered.) But to propose that little Italy had the strength, or desire, to orchestrate a feasible occupation of such far off countries as Finland or Rumania is ill conceived, not to mention ahistorical. I believe there will be more complaints if Italy is given Finland (if I was Italian I wouldn't like it) because that JUST DIDN'T HAPPEN. The game should keep the parameters at least inside events that actually took place. Unless they really speak Italian in Finland without my knowing.

Let's leave this discussion as dead, I think if you really listen to yourself you'll realize what you're actually proposing.

RSW
"In wartime the truth is so precious, she must always be attended by a bodyguard of lies" -Winston Churchill

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Flashman
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Post by Flashman » Sun May 27, 2007 9:59 pm

I propose that the Italian PLAYER controls the Axis minors, this does not mean that Romania and Finland have been annexed by Italy. It's just a way of including all participating nations.

Italy was just as independent of Germany as the UK was of USA, in fact as I said Hitler and Mussolini didn't co-operate much at all, and they liked surprising each other by invading another new country. I'm not sure Germany "controlled" Finland either, but do you really want each minor country to have it's own separate economy?

Like the USA "controlling" Chinese KMT forces, it's a way of simplifying the game. Italy qualifies as a major power due to it's existing forces, and POTENTIAL expansion due to a modern industrial base, which none of the "minor" countries had to any great extent. Finland and Romania had to buy warships and aircraft from other nations, Italy built it's own.

Rising_Sun_Warrior
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Post by Rising_Sun_Warrior » Mon May 28, 2007 8:09 pm

Wow, I feel stupid... :oops: I thought you meant something else. Now I understand what you meant. I like it! In that case may I recommend three different colors. Black for Germany, Gray for Italy, and, I don't know, a deep purple for the other Axis nations. That way Germany and Italy are separate and you can differentiate the minor powers.

The sticking point for me is still Finland. If Italy is given control of it the strategic planning for Italy becomes a pincer movement. Not a bad deal for Italy but, and I'm assuming the minor Axis and Italian forces move at the same time, an option historically unavailable to Italy. If Finland is German controlled then the plan seems fine to me. Game balance is important but I think leaving the Scandinavian region to Germany will not be a major problem. Just to be clear the problem is not Italy the country controlling Finland, it's the Italian player controlling Finland that throws me off.

Keep in mind the game is still great without Italy. For Italy to finally be included is a good enough bonus with or without added territories.

Again, please forgive the hard time I've been giving you. :)

RSW
"In wartime the truth is so precious, she must always be attended by a bodyguard of lies" -Winston Churchill

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adlertag
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Post by adlertag » Tue May 29, 2007 2:35 am

Now Germany is field gray, as in MB 2 ed.
Italian units are black, or light grey, or brown


Revised map :
Germany controll Western Europe, Norway (w/ Finland), Eastern Europe, Belorussia, West Russia and Ukraine.

Italy control South Europe, Balkan (w/ Romania), Algeria and Libya, and maybe even Spain, if I may say so. For gameplay Italy could even control Italian East Africa with one inf.

Mimmo
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Post by Mimmo » Tue May 29, 2007 2:47 am

>Italian units are black, or light grey, or brown
It should be nice if Italy can have its proper mod miniatures maybe in grey-green colour typical of our uniform on that time.

>For gameplay Italy could even control Italian East Africa with one inf.
Interesting. But it will depends from when the new game will start. Infact our Empire has fallen around the 5th of May, 1941 when the negus Haile Selassie came back to Adiss Abeba (where my grandfather fought in the 1935-36).

But don't forget to put 1 or 2 Italian subs in the Atlantic.
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adlertag
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Post by adlertag » Tue May 29, 2007 4:20 am

Mimmo wrote: But don't forget to put 1 or 2 Italian subs in the Atlantic.
Why ?

There are no convoy zones in Revised map. And an allied aircraft will easy kill your subs, with Revised rules

allweneedislove
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Post by allweneedislove » Tue May 29, 2007 7:22 am

i assume since there was no reaction to my post no one downloaded triplea to see the italy variant. here is a screenshot of the main changes in that variant. it is hard to tell from this shot but land units can move from sicily to italy without tranports. the ipcs for italy is italy proper 8ipc, sicily 1ipc, sardinia 1ipc, algeria 1ipc, west balkans 3ipc, greece 2ipc.

Image

Mimmo
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Post by Mimmo » Tue May 29, 2007 8:20 am

adlertag wrote: There are no convoy zones in Revised map. And an allied aircraft will easy kill your subs, with Revised rules
Oh yes, dear adlertag,
when I wrote my post I had in my mind my home made rules where the submarines can fire back to an attacking aircraft cause, usually, they have 1 or 2 guns on the deck or some machine gun on the turret and, an attacking aircraft, cannot engage any submarine if there is not an attacking destroyer. I mean, it can engage for one roll dice only: if no destroyer 1 aircraft roll 1 dice against a sub, the sub roll back 1 dice and if survive can submerge.
During the Battle of Atlantic we had around 80-90 vessels from 10th of June 1940 (declaration of war against France and U.K.) until 8th of September 1943 (date of our surrender), sinking approx. 573,000 tons. of Allied vessels.
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