The Rules:

We've talked about Advanced A&A... Now I'd like to hear your comments on what YOU envision a DELUXE A&A GAME to be. What would it look like.
elbowmaster
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The Rules:

Post by elbowmaster » Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:14 pm

Larry wrote:The rules - Should they be modified or changed?

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Craig A Yope
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Post by Craig A Yope » Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:26 pm

LHTR v1.3 with a thought towards reviewing to see about tightening it up.

I hate that there is some repetition of certain topics in different places of the rules.

Drop the NA's

Craig

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Krieghund
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Post by Krieghund » Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:32 pm

Incorporate some or all of the changes for LHTR. The NAs will also have to be looked at, as some are pretty broken (e.g. Superfortresses).

If any major rules were to change, my vote would be (drum roll, please) subs! We did a lot of nice work on these in the Advanced A&A concept.

It would also be nice to have some political rules that would limit cooperation between the USSR and the western Allies to maintain a real two-front war in Europe.
A&A Developer and Playtester

"War is much more fun when you're winning!" - General Martok

axis_roll
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Post by axis_roll » Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:41 pm

Craig A Yope wrote:Drop the NA's
I thnk BALANCE the NAs is a better suggestion.

Remember these are OPTIONAL.. I think NA's are an awesome way to spice up the game.

I know, shameless plug, but if you want some NA's that are balanced, Enhanced incorporates NA's into the 'base' game. To do this effectively, we evened up the NAs.

NATIONAL ADVANTAGES:

1. Method of Deployment
-Each side (the Axis & the Allies) will have a total of 4 NAs Each
-During the 1st ROUND, each nation declares 1 NA at the start of their TURN. The NA's effects come into play immediately unless otherwise described.
-During the 2nd ROUND, Ger, Jap, and any one Allied nation each declare 1 NA at the start of their respective TURNS'. The NA's effects come into play immediately unless otherwise described. However, a nation also has the option to delay their 2nd NA, meaning they do not declare it at the start of their 2nd TURN, but rather, declare it on the Mobilize Units phase of their 2nd TURN or any of their TURNs thereafter. All benefits from the Delayed National Advantage do not come into effect until the Mobilize Units Phase : All cost discounts, All unit placements, and All Combat or NCM benefits.
-If you lose your capital, you do not lose your Mobilize Units Phase for NA purposes.
-A nation's NAs remain in play, even if its capital is captured.



RUSSIA

1. Russian Winter - Once during the game in your Collect Income phase, you can declare a Severe Winter. From now until the end of your next turn, your INF defend at 3 and attack at 2. The defense benefit applies to Combat in any territory, whereas the attack benefit applies to Combat in Red territories or W. Russia only. When attacking, INF may be matched 1:1 with RTL, and thus attack at 3.

2. Russian Rail - In the NCM phase, your INF, AAGuns, and RTL may move 2 territories per turn ONLY among these territories: Bury,Yak,Novo,Rus,WRus, and Kar. You may move into or through territories you have just taken over (ie. did not control at the start of your turn) or that are Allied-controlled.

3. Russian T-34's - Your ARM in Red territories defend on a 4.

4. Lend-Lease - When declared, Russia is given a free 5IPC this turn only.
-During your Mobilize Units phase, you can convert up to 12IPC worth of Allied units into Russian units if they are in a Red territory. These may be land or air units. Remove the affected units from play and replace them with the same units of your own color. Any Tech or NA benefits from the previous owner are lost. Base costs are used for conversion (ie. not discounted costs)

5. Mobile Industry - Place 1 free IC during the Mobilize Units Phase of this turn only in any Red territory you control. The IC cannot build anything until next turn.
-Your ICs may move 1 territory during NCM (as long as you owned them at turn start). ICs can only move among Red territories. They may produce in territories they just moved to, as long as Russia owned the territory at turn start. Multiple ICs may exist in a single territory, but only 1 remains active (for the purposes of Rocket attacks, SBR and unit production)

6. Siberian Conscripts - Place 1 free INF/TURN during the Mobilize Units Phase in either Yak, SovFE or Bury if you control it



GERMANY

1. Atlantic Wall - Place 1 free INF/TURN during the Mobilize Units Phase in WEur if you control it.
-During Germany's Conduct Combat Phase, you may designate 1 RTL in WEur for "Coastal Defense". This RTL must have started its turn in WEur, and cannot move this turn. "Coastal Defense" gives you a single attack at 2 (3 with German 88's) against a single enemy sea unit of your choice in one of these SZs: 5,6,7 or 13 (SUBs cannot be targeted). The attack is rolled in Opening Fire and casualties are removed at the end of Opening Fire. The RTL is not subject to counterattack by naval vessels in the SZ.
-During any Amphibious Assault against a Grey territory, all your INF and RTL defend on a 3 on the first cycle of combat only.

2. German 88's – Place 1 free RTL for Immediate use this TURN in EEur if you control it.
-Place an additional free RTL during the Mobilize Units Phase of this TURN in Any Grey territory you control.
-During the first cycle of combat only, on Attack only, your RTL fire at 3 in the Conduct Opening Fire phase (instead of Attacking Units Fire Phase). Casualties are removed at the end of Opening Fire. Attacking INF still get RTL support, but fire in the Attacking Units Fire Phase).

3. Panzerblitz - If your attacking forces destroy all defending units in a territory in one cycle of combat, any of your surviving ARM may move 1 territory during NCM. This NCM move applies even if: a) your ARM has already moved 2 spaces in Combat b) you invaded an empty territory c) you invaded a territory containing only an AAGun and/or IC d) your ARM arrived by amphibious assault

4. Afrika Korps - Place 1 free INF for immediate use this TURN in Libya if you control it.
-Place an additional free 1INF,1RTL and 1ARM during the Mobilize Units phase of this TURN in Libya if you control it.

5. Wolf Packs -When declared, place 1 free SUB in either SZ 5 or SZ 14 during the Mobilize Units phase of this turn only. You may place the SUB even if the SZ is enemy occupied.
-Your SUBs attack at 3 (4 with Super Subs) if there are at least two of them at the start of the combat cycle. The SUBs may come from different SZs, but must attack the same SZ. When there are less than two SUBs at the start of a combat cycle, this ability is lost. The Wolf Packs NA does not improve defending SUBs.
-Your Convoy Raids do increased damage when there are at least two or more German SUBs in the same SZ. If the group of SUBs is within 2SZ of the enemy IC, the enemy subtracts an additional 1IPC from their collected income. If the group of SUBs is within 1SZ of the enemy IC, the enemy subtracts an additional 2IPC from their collected income.
-Your SUBs cost 1IPC less.

6. Luftwaffe Dive-Bombers - During the first cycle of combat, if there are no defending FTRs present, your FTRs hit on a roll of 4 or less. In succeeding cycles of combat, the FTRs hit normally. If defending FTRs are present, this ability is cancelled. This NA applies to both Land and Naval Combat. Your FTRs are still subject to any AA Fire.
-Your FTRs cost 1IPC less
-Your 1st FTR purchased costs 5IPC less. (Hans-Ulrich Rudel Rule)
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UNITED KINGDOM

1. Colonial Garrison - Place 1 free IC and 1 free INF during the Mobilize Units Phase of this turn only in either ECan,Egy,SAfr,Ind or Aus if you control it.Both units must be placed in the same territory.The IC cannot build anything until next turn.

2. The Commonwealth - Place 1 free INF/TURN during the Mobilize Units Phase in either ECan,Egy,SAfr,Ind or Aus if you control it.

3. Radar -When declared, place 1 free AAGun in either ECan,Egy,SAfr,Ind,Aus or UK if UK controls it, during the Mobilize Units phase of this turn only.
-UK owned AAGuns in tan territories and UK BBs with Combined Arms have their AA-to-hit value increased by 1 (ie.to 2, unless enemy has Jet Fighters)
-UK owned AAGuns in tan territories may attempt to shoot down Rockets at a roll of 2 or less. If hit, the Rockets do no damage.
-When declared, UK is given a free 5IPC to spend towards developing Jet Fighters Tech. IPCs not spent, or unable to be spent this TURN, may be carried over, but must still be used for Jet Fighters Tech.

4. Royal Navy - Place 1 free DD off the coast of either ECan,Egy,SAfr,Ind,Aus or UK if you own the land territory, during the Mobilize Units Phase of this turn only. You may place the DD even if the SZ is enemy-occupied.
-Your DDs cost 1IPC less.

5. Royal Air Force - Place 1 free FTR in either ECan,Egy,SAfr,Ind,Aus or UK if you own it, or on an AC adjacent to these territories, during the Mobilize Units Phase of this turn only.
-Your FTRs cost 1IPC less.

6. UK Lend-Lease - When declared, UK is given a free 5IPC this turn only.
- During your Mobilize Units phase, you can convert up to 12IPC worth of US units into UK units if they are in any of these territories: ECan,Egy,SAfr,Ind,Aus or UK. These may be land or air units. Naval, air or land units in a SZ adjacent to these territories may also be converted assuming you control the territory. Remove the affected units from play and replace them with the same units of your own color. Any Tech or NA benefits from the previous owner are lost. Base costs are used for conversion (ie. not discounted costs)



UNITED STATES

1. Mechanized Infantry - Your INF have a move of 2 and may blitz as tanks do.

2. Pacific Divisions - Place 1 free INF/TURN during the Mobilize Units Phase in either Sink,Chi,Kwa,Phi,Alsk,Haw or WUS if you control it.

3. Marines - When declared, place 2 free INF in either EUS, CUS,WUS, Alsk, or Haw if you control it, during the Mobilize Units phase of this turn only. These units may be placed in the seperate territories.
-During an Amphibious Assault, your INF attack at 2 for the first cycle of combat only. Marines may be matched 1:1 with supporting RTL, and thus attack at 3 on the first cycle of combat
-Once per game, you may conduct a single amphibious assault using Marine Raiders. On this turn only, each of your SUBs may load a single INF unit and transport it into the same amphibious assault against a single enemy island. An island is defined as a single land territory completely surrounded by a single SZ (eg. Philippines would be considered an island, Japan would not). If the SZ is hostile, your SUBs must first participate in Naval Combat. If your SUBs survive, they may then unload 1INF each into the amphibious assault. If your SUBs submerge or retreat, the INF remain aboard, and can be unloaded on a future turn on NCM only.

4. Naval Industry - All your Naval Units (TRN,SUB,DD,AC,BB) cost 1IPC less

5. Reinforced Carriers - Your ACs require 2 hits to destroy, just like BBs.
-Your 1st Aircraft Carrier purchased costs 5IPC less

6. Tech Investment - Your attempts at Tech succeed automatically with 4 rolls instead of 6.
-When declared, US is given a free 5IPC to spend towards developing Minor Tech. IPCs not spent, or unable to be spent this TURN, may be carried over, but must still be used for Minor Tech.
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JAPAN

1. Banzai Attacks -When declared, place 1 free INF in either Man, Kwa, or FIC if you control it, during the Mobilize Units phase of this turn only.
-Your INF attack at 2 for the first cycle of combat only. There are no restrictions on what units may accompany your Banzais. Banzai INF may be matched 1:1 with supporting RTL, and thus attack at 3 on the first cycle of combat.

2. Tokyo Express - Your DDs gain limited transport capability. Maximum carrying capacity is 2INF per DD. Each DD can be used during either Combat or NCM, but not both (with the one exception of Tokyo Express-DDs starting in a Hostile SZ)
i) COMBAT - Your DDs can load and/or unload only 1 INF during Combat. As per LHTR rules, a unit loaded in Combat must be unloaded in Combat on the same TURN (unless DD is sunk or forced to retreat). If the SZ is hostile, your DD must first participate in Naval Combat (at full strength, ie.3/3). If your DD survives, it may then unload 1INF into the Amphibious Assault.
-If you have Combined Arms, your DD can Bombard, BUT only if there was no Naval Combat prior to the Amphibious Assault. Combined Arms Tokyo Express-DDs can only Bombard into the same territory they are Unloading units into.
ii) NON-COMBAT - Your DDs not participating in Combat can load and/or unload up to 2 INF during NCM. INF loaded during NCM do not need to be unloaded the same TURN, and may remain aboard the DD. A loaded DD does not suffer any combat penalties (ie. it remains 3/3)

3. Yamato Class Battleships - Your BBs attack, defend, and bombard on a 5.
-Your 1st Battleship purchased costs 5IPC less.

4. Tech Advantage - When declared, Japan is given a free 16IPC which must ALL be used towards developing Minor Tech. IPCs not spent, or unable to be spent this TURN, may be carried over, but must still be used for Minor Tech.

5. Kaiten Torpedoes -When declared, place 1 free SUB in either SZ 60 or SZ 61 during the Mobilize Units phase of this turn only. You may place the SUB even if the SZ is enemy-occupied.
-Japan may designate up to 2 SUBs/TURN as Kaitens. Kaitens can only be used for attack.
-At the start of Combat, Japan must declare a "primary target" if using just 1 Kaiten in a SZ, and a "primary and secondary target" if using 2 Kaitens in a SZ (Enemy SUBs cannot be targeted). Enemy BBs still require 2 hits, and would thus need to be targeted twice.
-Kaitens are subject to detection but their DD-to-detect values decrease by 1 (Kaitens and regular SUBs will have different DD-to-detect values, so it's possible for defending DDs to detect regular SUBs, but not Kaitens).
-If "undetected", Kaitens roll against their primary target first, and only move on to the secondary target (with a 2nd Kaiten) if the primary is destroyed.
-If "detected", Kaitens must roll against an enemy DD first, and only move on to the primary target (with a 2nd Kaiten) if the DD is destroyed.
-Kaitens hit in the first cycle of combat on Opening Fire on a 3 or less (4 with Super Subs). Kaitens cannot be hit by enemy units. Instead, they die automatically at the end of Opening Fire, whether they have hit or not. Kaiten casualties are also removed at the end of Opening Fire, regardless of whether the Kaiten was detected or not.
-Your SUBs cost 1IPC less.

6. Kamikaze Attacks - Japan may designate up to 2 FTRs/TURN as Kamikazes. Kamis can only be used for attack against naval units and may use their full range of movement to reach the SZ without needing a friendly territory to land.
-At the start of Combat, Japan must declare a "primary target" if using just 1 Kami in a SZ, and a "primary and secondary target" if using 2 Kamis in a SZ (Enemy SUBs cannot be targeted). Enemy BBs still require 2 hits, and would thus need to be targeted twice. If Kamis and Kaitens are used together, you would declare up to 4 targets in total. The Kaitens would roll first, with the Kamis continuing in sequence. Kamis do not have to kill an enemy DD first if the Kaitens are detected and fail to hit the DD.
-Kamis are subject to any AA Fire (land-based AAGuns or BBs with Combined Arms), or "intercepting" FTRs (ie. with UK Radar or Jet Fighters) and are removed IMMEDIATELY if hit. If Japan has Jet Fighters, they may lower enemy AA-to-hit values (but not "intercept" values)
-Kamis hit in the first cycle of combat on Opening Fire on a 4 or less. Kamis cannot be hit by enemy units (except AA and interceptors). Instead, they die automatically at the end of Opening Fire, whether they have hit or not. Kami casualties are also removed at the end of Opening Fire.
-Your FTRs cost 1IPC less.
-Your 1st FTR purchased costs 5IPC less.
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elbowsanchez
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AARe

Post by elbowsanchez » Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:27 pm

axis_roll wrote:
Craig A Yope wrote:Drop the NA's
I thnk BALANCE the NAs is a better suggestion.

Remember these are OPTIONAL.. I think NA's are an awesome way to spice up the game.

I know, shameless plug, but if you want some NA's that are balanced, Enhanced incorporates NA's into the 'base' game. To do this effectively, we evened up the NAs.
I have been lurking this group for some time and honestly feel much of their thoughts on "revised" fixes warrant merit. Good work is good work, and these options were not only conversed in the main AH forum, but playtested and implemented by many gaming groups not satisfied with OOD AA:R:e.

I hope Larry considers them as well.

ES
-The evil Bert & friend

TrimChris
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Post by TrimChris » Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:24 pm

An absdolute must is rules that give Japan incentive to fight in the Pacific and not Russia. And the US needs a reason to fight for the Pacific as well instead of triple teaming Germany.

Larry
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Post by Larry » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:19 pm

Craig A Yope – ok… tightening it up – good advise. Not sure where it needs it but will be looking at that. Dop the NA’s – what’s the mater with you… are you trying to get me killed?
Krieghund – Thanks for you endorsement.
Axis_roll – your long list of suggestions are noted. Thanks for doing that!
To Elbowsanchez’s point… they are being considered.
TrimChris – Nice to see you here… an absolute must is rules that give Japan incentive to fight in the Pacific and not Russia. The US needs reason to fight in the Pacific… I totally agree with you. I think I’m willing to change the existing rules to implement this kind of results.

PAGAN
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Post by PAGAN » Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:59 am

I think the Deluxe edition should be the Overwhelming use of LHTR
---i understand the broken NAs, but those are extras, and not part of the game rules. The overwhelming usage of LHTR measn the deluxe edition = LHTR
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AARe : is a variant that uses the National Advantages
Axis & Allies Revised Enhanced

In Reply to Larry's thoughts of some way to keep japan off russia...--- to SLOW the japan progress towards russia there were two basic implemetations for AARe

#1. non-aggro-treaty : if either russia or japan attacked the other's original (colored) territory then that territory gets 4 free infantry BEFORE combat starts ; the treaty only lasts until broken

#2. +honolulu VC , +sydney VC : axis could get the 10VC win if japan strikes out to get these. USA has to stop japan from doing so, the only way is via pacific fleets
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if you'd like to read more on the variant then here is the link to the AvalonHill-AARe area:
http://boards.avalonhill.com/showthread.php?t=15339
AARe : Axis & Allies Enhanced global warfare, where the leaders of nations will decide the destiny of the world. Do you have what it takes?

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