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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:46 am
by adlertag

How to make a fluid game. Today infantry move 1 space and ships move 2 spaces in a turn. This alone is the reason for long-time games.

Land units got the possibility of rail-move a certain number of units across its linked territories.
Naval units must move 4 spaces in a turn to balance this.
A real fleet can suddenly show up in the horizon, anywhere on the globe.
A&A fleet is a real slow-going 2 move mediocre ahistoric experience.

A 4-move tranny can embark cargo in sea-zone 1, move 4 sea-zones and debark its cargo.
Or bridging, just stay in the channel and convoy a cargo from UK to France 4 times in a turn.
Or something in between, embark cargo, move 2 sea-zones, debark cargo, move 2 more sea-zones, etc.


In real ww2, the unit that was engaged in action, took the casualties.
In A&A, cheap infantry are used as fodder.

To reflect real ww2, fighters must be able to target , just like the new subs. Now fighters will propably pick opponents air-units as casualties, thos reflecting the air-to-air combat for air-supremacy that historically happened in real ww2. Then the fighters will target opponents tanks, and other fat, juicy objects, giving the fighter unit a reason to be build.

Tanks must be able to target other tanks. + be more powerful. If a tank-roll succeed, the tank get a extra bonus roll to reflect the breake-through and following up exploitation.


An attacker can combat move as many attacking land units he want into a territory, but only the land units that are facing one matching enemy land unit can roll combat dice. Now the best units will be in play and take the casualties. Bombers/BB shore bomb. must be combined to one matching land unit, in order to roll combat dice, because this indirect fire units are just giving ground support. Fighters operate on their own.

examples. Fritz attack with 2 bombers, 3 tanks and 10 infantry.
Boris defend with 2 fighters , 1 tank and 4 infantry + AA-gun.

Both the 2 bombers and the AA-gun roll dice. All 3 units score hits. Remove 1 bomber and 2 of Boris infantry.

Fritz choose to attack with 2 tanks and 1 infantry. (3 land units facing 3 other land units)
Boris defend with 2 fighters (dont face any limits) and 1 tank, 2 infantry.
The fighters are free to pick their targets, and the tanks can pick another tank as casualty.

Now you figure out if this system will improve the game, or bogging it down.

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:35 am
by The Old Soldier
I'm going a little more retro. With 3 round combat, retreats, combine arms, and targeting, infantry stacks should take care of themselves.

If you want to have a national limit, fine. I just doubt if it is needed. The idea of a having a number of inf. remain in a conquered territory based on the IPC of that territory sounds good. Allies of course would not have to occupy it's friendly ally territory.


Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:18 pm
by Imperious leader
I favor the adlertag proposal, but with different justification. I want different speeds for some naval units (carriers and cruisers go 3), battleships,transports and destroyers go 2) and (patroling slow subs go 1)

On land i want possibly tanks at 3, mech at 2, and infantry and artillery at 1
I want a +1 movement bonus for infantry or artillery for each matching mechanized unit. Something like this...

Fighters move 4
bombers go 6
and torpedo bombers/divebombers go 2

No AA guns they suck...only built into existing complexes, not traveling "divisions" that lazer beam down your planes when there fighting overhead during combat.

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:19 am
by adlertag

Just give the units their historical combat value.

Bombers work like AA-guns, by attrition.
Infantry are weak in attack and strong in defence.
Tanks roll two dices, first roll are Breakethrough, second are Exploitation.
Fighters pick targets.
Any hit by Artillery kills two infantry units or one other unit type.

Bombers roll one dice to each enemy infantry unit, 1 is a hit. This should discourage infantry stacking.
Remove the infantry casualties.

...............ATTACK.....DEFENCE.....with D 12

Larry, do it for the kids. Dont let the young boys grow up beliving that infantry are strong in attack, then they will get their ass waxed at West Point , and blame it on you.

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:03 pm
by adlertag

Bombers work by attrition, they roll one dice to each enemy infantry unit, 1 is hit, in opening fire step.

This will discourage infantry stacking and reflect ww2 carpet bombing.

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 6:57 pm
by adlertag
Larry wrote:Comments noted.
I wonder what would happen if infantry suddenly cost more than armor but yet kept all its present values. Oh and by the way, armor could not capture a territory or occupy a territory by itself.
I like that idea, but only if there are :

1.Nation limit for infantry buy based on population.
Sovjet 12 infantry each turn.
UK 5

Japan 5
Germany 5
Italy 3

2. Supporting units are much stronger, but with inclining cost.
*Bombers work by attrition, roll one dice against each infantry unit in opening fire step.
(similar to AA-guns)(reflects carpet bombing)
*Fighters are free to target any land or air unit.
*Tanks roll two dices in attack.
(reflects Breakethrough and Exploitation)

3.Inclining cost for supporting units.
(Bombers, fighters, tanks, artillery and mech.inf.)
All nations had industrial capasity to build 1000 tanks or 1000 fighters each month, but to exceed that, they would have to spend extra resources in new factories. The first build have standard cost, the next build cost + 5 ipc extra and so on. (See Griffys post on this subject)

First Bomber cost 15 ipc, next cost 20 ipc, next cost 25 ipc.
First Fighter cost 5 ipc, next cost 10 ipc, next cost 15 ipc.
First Tanks cost 5 ipc, next cost 10 ipc, next cost 15 ipc
First Artillery cost 4 ipc, next cost 6 ipc, next cost 8 ipc.
and so on.

Just thinking out of the box, its a long time to 4th april, gee.

Keep it simple (for the) stupid!

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:03 pm
by ChristophfromGermany
It´s only a game, so I would prefer to stick to the valuable KISS-Rule. I made good experience with the following rules:

1. Every nation may spend only half its income (the IPC they actually have when it´s their turn to buy units) on infantry. To balance the disadvantage for Russia, their infantry cost is reduced to 2 IPC. Germany may build 2 IPC Infantry in Finland (1 per turn), Rumania (1) and Italy (3).

2. Fighters may choose their target. Otherwise their cost cannot be justified in comparison to other units like infantry or artillery.

3. Combat lenght is limited to three rounds of combat per battle, one round of combat reflects approximately one month.

These rules, simple to implement and without stacking limits or infantry counting all the time, throw infantry stacks where they belong – into the dustbin of A&A history.

Another option (not playtested) would be a system like that: Infantry kills infantry first, only if there is no infantry left, the defender must choose other units. Artillery hits artillery first, only if no artillery units are left, the defender may choose infantry as casualties. Tanks hit tanks first, only if no tanks are left, the defender may choose to remove artillery or infantry units. Naval combat could work similarly. Just an idea...

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:19 am
by Imperious leader
I dont like Infantry limitations either, but id rather make reasons to buy more expensive units. LIke the more you spend the better deal you get. This would give the pieces more value in general. Additional tinkering of unit values would have to occur.