Combined Arms

Thanks for your input todate. Here is a collection of my thinking at this point. Please feel free to participate in this on going discussion. Your contributions are appreciated. Tell your A&A friends about this so they have a chance to voice what they want in A-A&A. I'll update the the original posting as changes and new ideas are adopted or contemplated.
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d6veteran
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Post by d6veteran » Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:57 pm

Read this whole thread and then stewed it overnight.

I can't think of a reason not just simply make more combos on the battle board like another poster stated. I like that idea because it uses a system already in the game, while still achieving the effect of providing bonuses to combined arms attacks (and possibly defense).

I don't like the idea of rolling additional dice, nor do I like the idea of having a vast matrix of bonuses. Both slow down game play and imo don't offer a better result than adding combos to the battle board.

Adding more assault combos I think will require some balancing for the defenders. So then we need defense combos too. But then, what are you achieving? Quicker, more bloodier battles (more possibilities for dice rolling luck to effect the battle)? Rewarding players who buy a mix of units? I think it is an important question to ask -- what does this achieve in terms of gameplay?

Of course it will be fun to have new combos ;)

++++++

Suggestions for combos (assuming Revised stats):

inf + art = inf attack at 2

inf + tank OR mech + tank = tank defend at 3 (tanks were extremely vulnerable without inf support, so I propose dropping their defense stat back down to 2 and only giving them a 3 if accompanied by an inf unit)

fighter + art = art defend at 3

Keep it simple, don't want to clutter the battle board too much(?). Attacking with mech and tank is already powerful from the stats I've seen. But you should get the reward of having newly gained territory secured with a combined arms force as this was one of the attributes/rewards of the infantry keeping up with armored spearheads.


++++++

About airpower and blitzkrieg. I think the current abstraction works. If I devote an entire air wing (one fighter unit) to attacking/interdicting an enemy armored battalion/regiment ... that tank army will most likely be disrupted, damaged and halted to a point where they no longer exist as a viable fighting force. Yet that tank unit can roll a three and destroy an entire airwing. Seems more than fair.

Plus, when air superiority was combined with ground forces their effect was devastating (just ask Rommel). I think the air stats, and their capability when used with inf and tanks, represents blitzkrieg pretty well in the game. I'm not sure that the concept of 'Blitzkrieg' needs to be given a separate game mechanice.

I think AA abstracts it well as is, otherwise you'd see players attacking with just fighters, or just tanks or just infantry. But they don't, they attack with all three and are rewarded for it.

Larry
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Post by Larry » Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:29 pm

Krieghund – I am intrigued by this possibility you talked about -fighters being used in a support role, much like artillery. I'm not sure what kind of impact this could have on the game. It may not work at all, or it may work but not as well as the present pretty simple and straight forward 3/4 fighter. I’d like to get some reactions from others on this.

I fooled around with it briefly and decided that the present system seems to work better. It got even more complicated when dealing with defensive fighters. Nonetheless it was a great thought - give yourself a :idea:

d6veteran
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Post by d6veteran » Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:02 am

What about an air superiority bonus?

If you attack/defend a territory that has planes, yet you have no planes; then the enemy gets a boost.

Perhaps each round the planes get to roll first regardless of if they are attack or defense, and any casualties from the planes are removed without reply.

This rewards combined armed attacks in a round about way, and reflects history. See Rommel :shock:

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Krieghund
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Post by Krieghund » Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:03 am

Larry, I know what you mean about the defensive fighter problem. I have a rule in my Alternative D12 Combat System that fighters cannot hold ground by themselves, so I ended up making defending fighters retreat (similar to losing their carrier in a naval battle) when no defending ground units remain in a territory.

D6veteran, I think that the 3/4 fighter is powerful enough without an air superiority bonus. In my Alternative D12 Combat System I have fighters fire in the equivalent of the Opening Fire phase as you suggest, but I found this to be way too powerful and had to place an "air to ground adjustment penalty" on them to even things out. That is why I was considering the idea that I posted and Larry references above - I thought it might be less "clunky" and more historical.
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Post by Imperious leader » Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:26 pm

kreighund: can we see this post for d12 system so i can follow what your saying?
We really need an Axis and Allies World War one game so i can play that on August 1st, 2014.

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Post by Krieghund » Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:34 pm

Imperious leader wrote:kreighund: can we see this post for d12 system so i can follow what your saying?
Here is the "latest and greatest" version, though it's still a work in progress.

Link removed - Please PM me if you would like to see the system.
Last edited by Krieghund on Sat Mar 05, 2005 11:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Larry
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Post by Larry » Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:59 pm

D6veteran – Interesting comments you’ve been making. I’m particularly referring to the point that you made …Give the attacker a bonus only to have it off set by a defensive bonus is a long tedious exercise in numbers and to what end? I like you Air superiority bonus. I’m not sure I want to reduce tanks back down to 3/2 (kind of like them at 3/3). But at the same time I do like the Armor/Infantry combo being rewarded. At this point I considering all the options. – this is not easy and I certainly want to get it right.

Krieghund – I think your combat system is poetic and full of rich “story-line” – I don’t want to go there with Axis & Allies. It’s almost like you’ve gone too “Tactical” for me. I want to keep it more at the “Strategic” level. Thus I’m having trouble with the different phases of combat you’re having in the combat phase itself. I’m not saying I’d never go there but I’m not sure it’s the best thing for A&A as I know it and where I want it to go.

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Krieghund
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Post by Krieghund » Thu Jan 13, 2005 2:33 pm

Larry wrote:Krieghund – I think your combat system is poetic and full of rich “story-line” – I don’t want to go there with Axis & Allies. It’s almost like you’ve gone too “Tactical” for me. I want to keep it more at the “Strategic” level. Thus I’m having trouble with the different phases of combat you’re having in the combat phase itself. I’m not saying I’d never go there but I’m not sure it’s the best thing for A&A as I know it and where I want it to go.
Thanks for the compliment. :D I assumed that it would be too detailed for your purposes here. I reference it here only for purposes of concepts that we can adapt to your needs. (Though it's not really as complicated as it seems at first glance, once you're used to it!)
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